Summer of '71

[Walter]

Edit: Hi Keith, you've 341 open posts on Historical Junior Corps Discussions. May I start 1 topic on this thread? Let me know if it's aok

Hey Linda, I've got your back.... go ahead !!!

[jkyeag]

Argonne's interpretation of the total show concept was different than the vast majority of corps in 1971. Sandra believed that the total show concept was about the merging of of the musical components (drums and bugles) with the visual to achieve an integrated musical presentation. It was NOT that you needed a themed show. In the 5.0 LP, Sandra held the '68 and '69 Kilties up as examples of corps with a similar approach.

In the late 60s, it was generally believed on the Great Plains of Kansas that the road to the top of the brass pile went through Racine, Wisconsin. It was clear that these young men where getting instruction that others were not. They were very, very good.

Emil Pavlik

[baja]

1971 VFW Nationals, Dallas TX Thursday August 19

Insp. Cadence M & M Perc. Brass G.E. Pen. Score

1 SC Vanguard 9.6 10.0 24.00 18.70 18.30 9.35 89.95

2 Troopers 9.7 10.0 25.45 17.80 17.05 9.10 0.1 89.00

3 27th Lancers 9.4 10.0 24.30 17.50 17.95 9.70 88.85

4 Blue Rock 9.6 9.6 25.05 18.80 16.50 8.75 0.1 88.20

5 Anaheim Kingsmen 9.0 10.0 24.00 18.30 17.90 8.55 87.75

6 Argonne Rebels 9.6 10.0 22.45 17.15 19.00 9.15 87.35

7 Garfield Cadets 9.7 10.0 24.85 17.05 15.80 8.90 86.30

8 Boston Crusaders 9.3 10.0 23.30 18.45 16.70 8.20 0.1 85.85

9 Blue Stars 9.6 10.0 23.45 16.65 16.85 8.70 85.25

10Madison Scouts 9.3 10.0 23.40 16.55 17.55 8.25 0.2 84.85

Scoring was pretty straight forward in 71, but I don't remember getting scored for cadence. Can anyone enlighten me on this one.

[Northern Thunder]

Scoring was pretty straight forward in 71, but I don't remember getting scored for cadence. Can anyone enlighten me on this one.

(You left out two finalists....the 11th place St. Paul Scouts and 12th place Black Knights.)

Everybody received a perfect 10 in cadence at '71 VFW National finals, except for Blue Rock and the Black Knights, who both got 9.6.

Edited July 20, 2009 by Northern Thunder

[up4479]

Scoring was pretty straight forward in 71, but I don't remember getting scored for cadence. Can anyone enlighten me on this one.

VFW rules required everyone to maintain a steady cadence of, if I remember correctly, 120 beats per minute. Changes in tempo were not allowed. It gave the timing and penalty judge more work to do during the show. This was one reason they had more than one stopwatch.

[HornsUp]

The cadence caption dates back to the first judging system used, in the first field show competition at the 1924 American Legion Nationals. The Legion eventually dropped the caption, but it remained on the VFW sheets well into the 70s.

The cadence caption then was worth 10 points, and had its own judge. The allowable range was strict - 128-132bpm. Performances were sampled for 15 seconds at three points in the show: off the line, out of concert, and off the field. Penalties were heavy, issued in increments of .4

A few brave designers employed different tempos during show segments where they knew they were not subject to cadence judging. But the great bulk of everyone's 8+ minutes of "time in motion" was at the single proscribed cadence.

This requirement heavily affected the way drum rudiments were executed. It also restricted what was a practical marching technique. And surprisingly, it took quite a few seasons into the DCI era before designers really took advantage of their new freedoms.

Now for the rest of the story:

The cadence judge was a crony of VFW Contest Chairman Tony Schlecta. And there was no way to ensure his integrity. So a corps sometimes was penalized in this caption when Tony desired to adjust the final outcome of his contest.

Tony even told me after the announcement of scores one year "I could have got you one place higher. But that would have been about all I could do."

[baja]

The cadence caption dates back to the first judging system used, in the first field show competition at the 1924 American Legion Nationals. The Legion eventually dropped the caption, but it remained on the VFW sheets well into the 70s.

The cadence caption then was worth 10 points, and had its own judge. The allowable range was strict - 128-132bpm. Performances were sampled for 15 seconds at three points in the show: off the line, out of concert, and off the field. Penalties were heavy, issued in increments of .4

A few brave designers employed different tempos during show segments where they knew they were not subject to cadence judging. But the great bulk of everyone's 8+ minutes of "time in motion" was at the single proscribed cadence.

This requirement heavily affected the way drum rudiments were executed. It also restricted what was a practical marching technique. And surprisingly, it took quite a few seasons into the DCI era before designers really took advantage of their new freedoms.

Now for the rest of the story:

The cadence judge was a crony of VFW Contest Chairman Tony Schlecta. And there was no way to ensure his integrity. So a corps sometimes was penalized in this caption when Tony desired to adjust the final outcome of his contest.

Tony even told me after the announcement of scores one year "I could have got you one place higher. But that would have been about all I could do."

Interesting. I was never aware of these requirements. Seems to me that losing this aspect of drum corps has elevated the activity. Thanks for the response.

Edited July 21, 2009 by baja

[Northern Thunder]

WAY back at the 1930 American Legion Nationals, the corps from Barre, VT (yes, Vermont had drum corps at one time) received a 5 out of 10 in cadence. That score was much lower than anybody else. Apparently they had to use a calendar to time them. Had they gotten an average cadence score of 9 (which was about the average for the 60 corps at prelims that year), they would have finished 18 places higher in the rankings.

[lindap]

The cadence caption dates back to the first judging system used, in the first field show competition at the 1924 American Legion Nationals. The Legion eventually dropped the caption, but it remained on the VFW sheets well into the 70s.

The cadence caption then was worth 10 points, and had its own judge. The allowable range was strict - 128-132bpm. Performances were sampled for 15 seconds at three points in the show: off the line, out of concert, and off the field. Penalties were heavy, issued in increments of .4

A few brave designers employed different tempos during show segments where they knew they were not subject to cadence judging. But the great bulk of everyone's 8+ minutes of "time in motion" was at the single proscribed cadence.

This requirement heavily affected the way drum rudiments were executed. It also restricted what was a practical marching technique. And surprisingly, it took quite a few seasons into the DCI era before designers really took advantage of their new freedoms.

Now for the rest of the story:

The cadence judge was a crony of VFW Contest Chairman Tony Schlecta. And there was no way to ensure his integrity. So a corps sometimes was penalized in this caption when Tony desired to adjust the final outcome of his contest.

Tony even told me after the announcement of scores one year "I could have got you one place higher. But that would have been about all I could do."

In 1971, I spent time learning the rules for the guard as a captain. In 1972, I spent time learning rules as a drum major.

I've bolded 2 paragraphs and have questions. How did the cadence judge know the range of 128-132bpm? I'm assuming a stop watch and counting. Was the count from the feet or the musical measure? I'm curious 'cause when I was DM in 72, sometimes our score depended on how fast or slow I said 'Mark Time Hut' or '1-2-3-4' :-)

Second question. If the 8+ minutes "time in motion" was cadence judged, may I assume the 3 minute concert was not cadence judged and that was when the corps could explore another tempo?

[HornsUp]

How did the cadence judge know the range of 128-132bpm? I'm assuming a stop watch and counting. Was the count from the feet or the musical measure?

If the 8+ minutes "time in motion" was cadence judged, may I assume the 3 minute concert was not cadence judged and that was when the corps could explore another tempo?

We didn't really know, there was no accountability. The caption was only used at VFW Nationals, and the recaps were published months later. The judge could write down whatever Tony told him to do.

The penalty was .1 for each bpm over or under the 128-132 range. But the samples were only 15 seconds, so whatever the judge counted was multiplied by 4. Whatever way he did it, it wasn't a very accurate process.

Cadence was only judged at the three specified points, and never during stop time. It was possible to do a halftime step or use a different tempo when we knew the judge wouldn't be checking - i.e., during a color pre or production number.