Submiting 8 Out of the 10 Rule Changes.....

[Dale Bari]

wait...

did you just compare hopkins to hitler?

really?

this is the most tasteless thing i've ever read here -- including all the mud that used to fly in the current events board.

you really need to reassess this, if it is what you truly believe.

I think you need to reassess your ability to read. I said, "Obviously an extreme example..."

Or, maybe you need a refresher course in critical thinking?

If you take notice again (with more care than you did the first time), you'll see I referenced the actions of Hopkins (submitting new rules for DCI) to the description of what he was doing (working within the organization's structure), as related by someone else. Then, I subjected the basic demands of Hitler (i.e. to be made Chancellor) to the same criterion (working within the government structure). That's all.

My point is to show that just because one works within the rules doesn't automatically make what one does right. What's legal is not necessarily what's correct, moral, ethical, etc. Convincing others to vote in one's favor in those cases is the mark of a superb politician, which Hopkins and Hitler both are/were (as are/were, not coincidentally, every US President, Senator, and Congressman.)

Any other supposition of commonality between the two men is pure inference on your part.

IOW, if you think the reference to Hitler is ridiculous, then that just points out the ridiculousness of defending Hopkins by simply stating that he's working within the structure of DCI. Most iconoclasts work within the structure. (Once in power, some work to collapse the structure. Hopkins hasn't proved he belongs in that group. Yet.)

Really, I think some of you need to turn down the level on the "Shock & Outrage Detector" and turn up the level on the "Logic Detector", or maybe even turn it on. Does the mere mention of the name "Hitler" really scare you that much? Instead of shouting "Boo!" at the haunted house, maybe we should yell "Hitler!" to scare the young'ns.

PS: I suppose I could've used Stalin instead of Hitler, but Stalin never operated by any rules that I can detect, other than: "Look out for number one!"

Edited January 11, 2008 by Dale Bari

[LAMystreaux]

I think you need to reassess your ability to read. I said, "Obviously an extreme example..."

Or, maybe you need a refresher course in critical thinking?

If you take notice again (with more care than you did the first time), you'll see I referenced the actions of Hopkins (submitting new rules for DCI) to the description of what he was doing (working within the organization's structure), as related by someone else. Then, I subjected the basic demands of Hitler (i.e. to be made Chancellor) to the same criterion (working within the government structure). That's all.

My point is to show that just because one works within the rules doesn't automatically make what one does right. What's legal is not necessarily what's correct, moral, ethical, etc. Convincing others to vote in one's favor in those cases is the mark of a superb politician, which Hopkins and Hitler both are/were (as are/were, not coincidentally, every US President, Senator, and Congressman.)

Any other supposition of commonality between the two men is pure inference on your part.

Really, I think some of you need to turn down the level on the "Shock & Outrage Detector" and turn up the level on the "Logic Detector", or maybe even turn it on. Does the mere mention of the name "Hitler" really scare you that much? Instead of shouting "Boo!" at the haunted house, maybe we should yell "Hitler!" to scare the young'ns.

PS: I suppose I could've used Stalin instead of Hitler, but Stalin never operated by any rules that I can detect, other than: "Look out for number one!"

I don't think you are in any position to be the logic police, but thanks.

[Dale Bari]

I don't think you are in any position to be the logic police, but thanks.

You're welcome!

[Casaba]

This is such a great read early in the morning!

[DrumCorpsFan27]

Yes, others voted for it, but how many of them would have proposed it in the first place?

Though I agree with much of your sentiment, point of fact is that Mark Arnold first proposed amps.

[Dale Bari]

Though I agree with much of your sentiment, point of fact is that Mark Arnold first proposed amps.

I'm not privy to the inner workings of the DCI BOD, but, much like John Adams advocating Independence in "1776", Hopkins was already well known as advocating amps, IIRC. So, there might have been more resistance to it if Hopkins himself had authored the proposal. And, like Dear Mr. Adams, GH might have been looking for an ally to make the proposal instead, otherwise the other BOD members might have "run their quill pens through" anything GH presented at that time. So, the part of Richard Lee was played by Mark Arnold "triumphant-Lee".

So, under that scenario, Mark Arnold was simply following Mr. Hopkins' strategy. Which isn't to say that Mr. Arnold didn't believe in the idea himself, just that GH needed an more objective person to champion his cause, lest it be attacked simply because it was HIS.

[cowtown]

With some of his blog and that independence thing, I was thinking maybe it was time for them to pull a star see how limiting the current version of DCI appears to be for them

I think they are out of ideas, so they add toys and lazily pretend to be creative – new blood for Cadets might not be a bad thing, better than new rules for all else

Somewhere he had a quote to the effect that the future of YEA was not in drum corps – makes since as the money is not really in drum corps but is this the guy you want effecting change?

[LAMystreaux]

With some of his blog and that independence thing, I was thinking maybe it was time for them to pull a star see how limiting the current version of DCI appears to be for them

I think they are out of ideas, so they add toys and lazily pretend to be creative – new blood for Cadets might not be a bad thing, better than new rules for all else

Somewhere he had a quote to the effect that the future of YEA was not in drum corps – makes since as the money is not really in drum corps but is this the guy you want effecting change?

Just because you don't like/enjoy a creative avenue someone presents does not mean it was not creative.

[cowtown]

Yeah but juxtaposition was a title, not a show, then pull out a repeat of an already done show, move to a greatest hits package and then they try something new and it bombs – yep, kids today love Tull so onto a rip of Alice in Bandland, a high school show and that did so well, lets try part 2, opps…maybe we should rip a different high school but we’ll change we are the wood winds to….this is the low brass – how radical, maybe we should do it again but milk a bit of we are the future back into it as self aggrandizing ego stroking, non too subtle declarative statement about why our fans hate us, they are not ready for the future yet, poor unenlightened saps

Yep, out of creative, new ideas

4 years of narration and claiming you only use it when needed to enhance…not really original, more of a crutch – fancy needing it 4 years to get their show across, whys’ s that? Because they are out of ideas and adding words helps hide that

[LAMystreaux]

Yeah but juxtaposition was a title, not a show, then pull out a repeat of an already done show, move to a greatest hits package and then they try something new and it bombs – yep, kids today love Tull so onto a rip of Alice in Bandland, a high school show and that did so well, lets try part 2, opps…maybe we should rip a different high school but we’ll change we are the wood winds to….this is the low brass – how radical, maybe we should do it again but milk a bit of we are the future back into it as self aggrandizing ego stroking, non too subtle declarative statement about why our fans hate us, they are not ready for the future yet, poor unenlightened saps

Yep, out of creative, new ideas

4 years of narration and claiming you only use it when needed to enhance…not really original, more of a crutch – fancy needing it 4 years to get their show across, whys’ s that? Because they are out of ideas and adding words helps hide that

It is amazing that even 3 years later people are still perpetuating falsehood. . .knowingly. Cadets 05 was a show with the same theme and some of the same design elements that a high school had done, one Sully had worked with. . .but it was not a copy of the show that the high school had done.

Man, I would love to see the high school band who could pull off that 05 show!