Why no mention/Important New Rule Change Proposal

[ssorrell]

But to answer the question, Acheson, Fielder, Hopkins and others now on the board seem to think the system is broken. The proposal indicates they and some group worked together to come up with these proposed changes. Among their complaints are poor participation by many board members, relegating the bulk of the work (and presumably the decisions) on a core group that actually replicates closely the top nine.

Okay, so if there is a problem with some board members pulling their weight and taking their responsibilities seriously, then why don't we see proposals introducing requirements for Board members and penalties for their lack of participation? Why punish the entire group for the sins of a few? It seems as though this proposal is an extreme move instead of taking smaller incremental steps to rectify these problems.

Now, as this proposal has been brought to the public's eye, anyone that votes for it will come off as arrogant and elitist. This entire episode reeks of bad PR, and anyone that thought that it would do otherwise is simply jaded and way out of touch.

[DrumCorpsFan27]

DCI's future participants and patrons are band kids. the "legacy fan" market (that is, people who are die-hard fans of drum corps as it was prior to about 1993) is shrinking or stagnating.

Or just plain leaving because they want to see drum corps.

yeah. i think it is. eventually, the products need to match, and the draw will come from the gaping chasm between performance qualities. band kids don't want to participate in "old-school" drum corps -- they want to do what they do at a much higher level. (this is based ONLY on my observations and interactions with band kids.)

I have observed both.

who are these "enthusiasts?" i think that the number posited on this board drastically overestimates the contribution of these "enthusiasts."

The BoD seems to agree with you.

band kids don't care what the rules of drum corps are, just like they don't care what the rules of band are. they want to march in the cavaliers, regardless of what the cavaliers do.

Competely inconsistant with your statement that the kids, "don't want to participate in "old-school" drum corps -- they want to do what they do at a much higher level." If they dont' care what the rules are, then they won't care if Cavaliers are old school or not.

[MikeD]

I don't know if DCI cares about their fans enough to care if a few walk away. But maybe this will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Do they care about their fans? Yes. Of course they do. Do they care about a particular fan or small set of fans with this or that POV? No. Their goal is to maximize their fan base however they think best. if that means some small portion goes away, so be it, if what replaces them is equal or greater.

I would HOPE those who get left behind break away and start another circuit, it seems to be coming full circle anyway. A few on this board seem to want take away everything that the original board of DCI worked so hard to accomplish.

No, actually the complainers are the ones who are looking to take away what the original BAD fought for...ultimate control of their destiny...and the ability to operate as they wished artistically.

Personally, I think they are going after the BOA crowd, why else would they move to Indy? And start developing their "less is more" elitist attitude?

They probably "think" that the BOA crowd will bring them the money since most directors, instructors etc all have some affiliation with a BOA band and this would bridge it for them as well. They are probably thinking of it in terms of "Money" instead of "loyalty" at this point. At least that's just MY personal opinion and how it appears to me. They probably "think" that this group of BOA folks will make them enough money to cover whatever legacy fans leave.

Why, yes, I think you are right in that DCI is primarily targeting the scholastic band members, BOA or not, HS and/or college and beyond, as the way to grow the audience base. IMO it's the right way to go, esp given limited resources to create marketing campaigns.

Do they ignore the legacy fans? No. Why permit the alumni corps to perform at champs and other shows? Why have a classic countdown? Why release the historical DVD's?

[Liam]

One other thing I gotta say about all this -- this attitude that if the BoD passes this, then it must be a good idea is patently absurd, imo. I understand that the BoD are the guys in the trenches with this stuff and certainly they have the most to gain or lose with all of these proposals. But to think that they can't make a mistake .... I mean it's almost like they've been endowed with some Pope-like infallibility. Even the Pope doesn't claim that anymore!!!! This goes not just for this proposal but all of them -- this idea that once something passes, it is therefore written in stone, because if it weren't a good idea, they wouldn't have passed it in the first place, so reversing it would therefore necessarily be going "backwards". The circular logic and blinder mentality is what causes many organizations/businesses etc to fail, imo. The comment in the proposal that (paraphrasing) "We've got the skin in the game, so no one else can tell us better how to run the organization" ... well, I just find that to be extremely cloistered and misguided thinking and no matter how many of them vote along with it, doesn't make it "right" or a "good idea" -- it just makes it more ingrained.

(This isn't in response to anyone in particular, just based on things I've read in this thread and others about the proposals in general )

[MikeD]

Tell you one thing, though -- if this passes, I will never again buy a souvenir from a Top 9 corps -- the lower guys are going to need all the help they can get, imo ....

What if it passes due to the lower guys also voting for it?

[Liam]

Regardless of who votes for it, I strongly believe that this proposal will severely hurt those corps not in the Top 9 over time. It's not a "boycott", it's a recognition of who is going to need the most help -- whether they realize it now or not.

[Liam]

Also, in the current environment, certainly some corps need more"help" than others, and that's not necessarily how I make my souvie purchases today, although I do try to help where I can. Difference is, that now I believe all the corps are on a relatively even playing field. THis proposal will tip the playing field significantly in favor of the Top 9, imo, so that is why I will switch my souvie buying habits to try (in some small, tiny way !!!) to even things up a bit, that's all

Edited January 24, 2008 by Liam

[MikeD]

(Sorry for the massive metaquotes!) While I can see some merits in the idea, is there really a market currently of enough participants, staff, fans, & support to sustain FIVE distinct divisions, each with slightly different balancings of the three priorities listed? This seems like more of a long term end goal then a means to get there, although maybe I'm misreading the whole thing.

Well, yes, I think that is a goal, not a process. Figuring out how to get there, if that becomes THE goal, would be covered in making the individual decisions that guide DCI in that direction.

[audiodb]

DCI's future participants and patrons are band kids. the "legacy fan" market (that is, people who are die-hard fans of drum corps as it was prior to about 1993) is shrinking or stagnating.

So is the market for fans of circa-1993 band.

I've seen this bait-and-switch over and over. You can't compare a demographic with a generation. Any demographic group of drum corps fans is free to grow or shrink as the product and marketing dictate. But you are no longer discussing a "demographic" when you characterize fans as "fans of drum corps as it was in 1993", or "the classic audience of 1975" ($1 to Hopkins)....those are generations, not demographics. Same as "marching band kids from 2001" - another generation. Any generation is a group that declines in number over time (as people pass away).

Maybe the term "legacy fan" is confusing people. Let me define a clearer term - "drum corps fan" (fan of drum corps the way it is). The "drum corps fan" demographic receives new members every year as marchers age out and join the fan base. DCI can also attract fans from the remainder of the population (i.e. band kids, or people who haven't marched in either activity). It is up to DCI to attract and retain (or ignore and alienate) as many "drum corps fans" as they desire.

yeah. i think it is. eventually, the products need to match, and the draw will come from the gaping chasm between performance qualities.

That was never enough of a draw to maintain summer marching band programs in the past. Why would it be in the future?

who are these "enthusiasts?" i think that the number posited on this board drastically overestimates the contribution of these "enthusiasts."

Oh? The "enthusiasts" make all the difference in the world. Have you never wondered how an activity with a participant base 2% the size of MB can attract enough fan-generated funds to survive without the school subsidation that MB enjoys? And better yet, conduct an eight-week cross-country tour every year? It is these "enthusiasts" that have caused drum corps to achieve what summer marching band could not.

[MikeD]

Maybe they're in competitive band because that's what their high school band does. They're in a class for credit. It's WAY easier for a kid to be in his/her HS band than it is for them to march drum corps. The number of kids participating in each activity isn't relevant this way because they the difference in commitment level is way too different.

Which is why DCI drum corps is roughly the equivalent of an honor band (e.g. all-State, county, etc) or a music experience such as Interlochen for the kids who want to do that sort of thing, in that it is for the top level marching band folks who love marching/music (hence the "Marching Music's Major League" idea from DCI). The summer season makes it possible for those to belong to such high level groups, as it occurs outside of the academic year, be it HS or college.

BTW...not all kids are in MB for credit. Some college bands are non-credit ensembles, and many HS maching bands today in my area have gone to an extra-curricular activity. The one I work with is just that way.