kusankusho Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 The way DCI is moving is best for drum corps, now and future. That is conjecture and wishful thinking at best. You make this statement, want me to quantify the numbers that are ###### off enough to leave, dismiss repeated polls and overwhelming petitions, and then rely on this as an argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 That is conjecture and wishful thinking at best. You make this statement, want me to quantify the numbers that are ###### off enough to leave, dismiss repeated polls and overwhelming petitions, and then rely on this as an argument? You asked this.... Which do you think is better for the growth of drum corps? ...and I gave you my answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kusankusho Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 You've been asking me to quantify my positions all day. Quantify your conjecture in the face of your demonstrated minorty view here on DCP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 You've been asking me to quantify my positions all day. Quantify your conjecture in the face of your demonstrated minorty view here on DCP. DCI show attendance nationwide is strong. I ask you to quantify your position because you try to extrapolate some small number of DCP people to the entire DCI audience. BTW...you have yet to quantify your position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_scotty Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 DCI show attendance nationwide is strong. I ask you to quantify your position because you try to extrapolate some small number of DCP people to the entire DCI audience. BTW...you have yet to quantify your position. where do you get your numbers? i ask because i've heard that attendance peaked in the mid 90's, and i'd like to see some hard facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 where do you get your numbers? i ask because i've heard that attendance peaked in the mid 90's, and i'd like to see some hard facts. DCI released their national attendance numbers a couple of years ago, and there was also a chart showing champs attendance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcsnare93 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Electronics in some way, shape or form have been used in the marching arena since the mid 90s (possibly earlier), so it's hardly cutting edge, nor necessary for the activity to "evolve." Look at how far it has come without it. However, I'll reserve judgement until I've actually seen a corps field a show with all these new "toys." Although, given what I've seen with voice amplification I'm a bit skeptical to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyTenor Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) Electronics in some way, shape or form have been used in the marching arena since the mid 90s (possibly earlier), so it's hardly cutting edge, nor necessary for the activity to "evolve." Look at how far it has come without it. However, I'll reserve judgement until I've actually seen a corps field a show with all these new "toys." Although, given what I've seen with voice amplification I'm a bit skeptical to say the least. Longer than that. Using the excuse that we need these changes to attract new members is ludicrous. Drum corps wasn't broken. This isn't fixing anything. This is "creative" people needing more toys due to their inability to be creative within the current guidelines. If this is the solution, what happens when their creativity gets stifled in the future? It is one more step toward marching band. I like marching band. I like drum corps. Soon I will have no choice. The timbre of the drum corps sound will be forever altered in 2009. Yes, it changed in 1974, too, when keyboards were first allowed. This change is bigger. So, what are the rules regarding use and limitations of electronics? Is there some sort of definitive rules statement about what's allowed and what isn't? Is it just for sound effects? Are patches for other instruments allowed? What are the criteria? How will it effect judging and scores? Does poor usage affect scoring in a negative way? To those dismissive of the veteran drum corps fans, shame on you. We gave you the opportunity to march by perpetuating the activity. Have some respect. Lose the fans who have supported drum corps for 20+ years and you lose a huge amount of financial support. If you think fees are high now, imagine what they could be if the donations stopped coming in. Regarding my future as a corps fan, I guess it's a wait and see. I know that I have only gone to band shows as an instructor since 1980. I usually don't watch the bands with electronics. Even in that genre of marching music, electronics sound "foreign" in an acoustic ensemble. That's the best word I can think of to describe an amplified electronic voice within a brass, woodwind and percussion ensemble. Drum corps will be no different. This particular rule regarding electronics is the greatest change in the history of drum corps. Keyboards (including grounding the pit), Bb/F brass are tiny in comparison. If you think a corps will be percieved as competitive without electronics after 2009, you're fooling yourself. Ask the last corps to use G brass, the last corps to add keyboards, the last corps to add amplification. It's no longer just how you play it, it's what you play it with, too. Garry in Vegas Edited January 28, 2008 by CrunchyTenor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_scotty Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 DCI released their national attendance numbers a couple of years ago, and there was also a chart showing champs attendance. i wish i could see that chart, particularly to see how far back it goes. i remember an interview in dci today within the last year where one of the members of the board of directors was quoted as saying they felt that they had turned the corner on attendance, and were moving back towards the peaks from the mid 90's. i wish i could remember the specific article and link it here, but it seems that even if attendance has grown incrementally in recent years it isn't at an all time high. also, and i hate to repeat myself, but this is a really big deal, dci cancelled this years broadcast for financial reasons. that is not the action of a healthy activity experiencing audience growth. i'd also be interested to see some of the financials. does anyone know where dci publishes their books? i have always assumed they were registered as a nonprofit, and as such would be required to carry open books, but honestly i don't know. i wonder just how sound the footing of the organization is, and what choices they made in terms of what to keep while cancelling those broadcasts. i'm sure they are expensive, but still, to remove your best annual opportunity to put your product in front of a million member audience should be the last step before locking the doors and calling it quits. for an entertainment entity to stop its biggest source of marketing, well, thats a major step in a down at best. i know a lot of people in these posts, by way of supporting the corps, are saying that the activity is fine and we should trust the directors to make changes that are in everyones best interest, but i think that the "everythings fine" attitude is very questionable, in light of the tangible financial results we're starting to see. and no one outside of the board of the directors has any idea how deep the problems lie, or has any way of forecasting even as an educated guess where this is all going. all we know for sure is that we have some mixed messages on attendance, something that is definitely worth a second look, and that the financial situation of the umbrella organization is much worse than was publicly assumed as little as a few weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeM Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Well, that about clinches the argument for me. I will not attend a DCI show, unless a DCI corps happens to be at a DCA show. I'd like to know the 7 directors who voted against electronics and brass amplification, so I can find a way to support them. This is a sad, sad day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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