Is there an untouchable rule change?

[mn trumpter guy]

dude, you probably wouldn't believe it from reading my posts, but i actually invested hundreds of hours of my life attending undergrad and grad english classes in both literature and composition. i know i sound like a barely domesticated redneck half the time, but what can i say, people who think you should only use technically flawless english on internet forums are a real pet peeve of mine, i go another rout.

Firstly, I think that a person should (especially if they know how) represent themselves as best as possible, if for no other reason than courtesy to others; well written posts are easier to understand and respond to. Indeed, one could argue that the whole misunderstanding on the previous page could have been avoided by a little bit of thought. Sorry if that is offensive or seen as an attack, as it was not meant to be either.

Secondly, I think that if (when) a WW rule change is passed, I don't think (could be phrased as "I hope") that most corps will not go off the edge. I am a huge supporter of creativity; I know it is not traditional Drum Corps, but with some tasteful integration, it is entirely possible that the show will be quite enjoyable.

More on topic, however, I think that many WW-ers will be interested in joining the activity. I know many who are learning a brass instrument to join it. As for the logistics, if a corps wants to add WW, they will either have to sacrifice brass spots (which would take care of the money issue), or there will be more spots available (in which case tour costs will have to go up to pay for extra busses, food, etc.)

[PurpleKnights]

A concert marimba costs much more than a clarinet or a saxophone, and it most definitely suffers from its use in the elements and hauling it around on a Uhaul truck, but yet, years ago it was allowed and now is a staple in the pit.

Marimba and xylophone keys are synthetic now. And corps trucks are hardly U-Hauls, they're serious equipment with multiple stories, ramps, and lighting. The only things that suffer from inclement weather in drum corps today are electronics, which can be covered for performance or done without for rehearsal, the pads on vibraphones, which can be easily covered, and mallets, which dry out when treated properly. Clarinets/Flutes/Saxophones CANNOT be weatherproofed and CANNOT be 'done without' in a rehearsal. Marching bands meet this challenge by using the cheapest, crappiest woodwind instruments that still function and trying to make them last a kid for 4 years (probably about the same wear and tear as 1 season of corps) before they inevitably fall apart. Playing with crap is not what the top marching music ensembles in the world want to do. The logistical problems of marching woodwinds in drum corps with today's technology are INSURMOUNTABLE. The board at DCI is not a herd of ignorant lap dogs at Hopkin's beck and call as so many people here with their wild, baseless conspiracy theories tend to believe. Woodwinds would be voted in if they were wanted and feasible. Are they wanted? I don't think the instructor's caucuses would pass them. Are they feasible? NO. It won't happen until Yamaha invents a saxophone you can play in the shower, and that's IF they're even wanted by then. You can believe what you want on that one.

[K-Swiss]

I second what PurpleKnight said, and add that you can't really perform a horn hit with a clarinet. Esp. a clarinet that's had its cork ruined by moisture.

[BozzlyB]

Firstly, I think that a person should (especially if they know how) represent themselves as best as possible, if for no other reason than courtesy to others; well written posts are easier to understand and respond to. Indeed, one could argue that the whole misunderstanding on the previous page could have been avoided by a little bit of thought. Sorry if that is offensive or seen as an attack, as it was not meant to be either.

Secondly, I think that if (when) a WW rule change is passed, I don't think (could be phrased as "I hope") that most corps will not go off the edge. I am a huge supporter of creativity; I know it is not traditional Drum Corps, but with some tasteful integration, it is entirely possible that the show will be quite enjoyable.

More on topic, however, I think that many WW-ers will be interested in joining the activity. I know many who are learning a brass instrument to join it. As for the logistics, if a corps wants to add WW, they will either have to sacrifice brass spots (which would take care of the money issue), or there will be more spots available (in which case tour costs will have to go up to pay for extra busses, food, etc.)

Call me crazy, but isn't that a double negative? Something about a glass house and stone throwing comes to mind....

[Schickmeister]

Forgive me if this has been covered...as I did not read the whole thread,

But does anyone else besides me think that there would be some SERIOUS animosity amongst corps members with a WW line? Personally, I would NOT want to be standing on the field next to some saxophone jazz cat, and I can say this as a saxophone player by trade.

I just believe that most current corps members do not want to see WW in their corps, and that having them there would create a lot of tension between the members...

Any thoughts?

[luvs me sum mello!]

Rules will be submitted over and over untill they pass. Some one will submit a proposal then people will lobby around the convention bars every night forming alliances and acting like sleasy politicians.

[BozzlyB]

Forgive me if this has been covered...as I did not read the whole thread,

But does anyone else besides me think that there would be some SERIOUS animosity amongst corps members with a WW line? Personally, I would NOT want to be standing on the field next to some saxophone jazz cat, and I can say this as a saxophone player by trade.

I just believe that most current corps members do not want to see WW in their corps, and that having them there would create a lot of tension between the members...

Any thoughts?

Very interesting, and VERY possible too IMO. Although I am certain it would be known to the corps membership very early on that the show would include a WW line, so here's your opportunity to back out so to speak if you don't want to be in a marching band.

Edited March 3, 2008 by BozzlyB

[sburstall]

I doubt a rule banning anybody under the age of 50 would pass.

And I agree with DCIHasBeen. They're coming. We'll see what happens, then, I guess.

They better not let one pass. Kids have to start living thier own life sometime.

[Schickmeister]

Very interesting, and VERY possible too IMO. Although I am certain it would be known to the corps membership very early on that the show would include a WW line, so here's your opportunity to back out so to speak if you don't want to be in a marching band.

Yes, I do agree that the fact would be known well in advance. However, I jsut feel that, at least personally, I would look at the WW players and feel they didn't put in the extra effort I did to learn the brass end of the spectrum to be a part of a drum and BUGLE corps. That's all.

To add to what you said...how many do you think would ACTUALLY back out and give up their summer when push comes to shove. Also, if a lot did, would the corps that decide not to use WW be at a competitive advantage with more "purists" trying to audition there?

[drumcat]

Frankly, there's no real reason to keep them out as of 2009.

You'll be able to mic them, and thus, you'll hear them over the amplifiers. Drum corps will be "mostly brass" instead of "all brass", and I expect that the "small ensemble" will start to become a staple of most shows. I even bet that most performers will be dual-discipline, only using a woodwind for a small period of time.

But for all the logistical nightmares that could be associated with woodwinds, the current leadership has pushed aside the known problems and pushed through the changes. Amps crackle and crap out like we've been saying since day 1. They are now on the sheets. We've been saying balance, over-balance, lack of accountability, etc., and it's been responded to with a DJ and ignoring the judging (statistically), and worse.

With that said, none of the arguments that are technical about woodwinds stands a chance. There's only one thing that keeps woodwinds out:

Lost gate $$ > Perceived Sponsorship value = No woodwinds.

Lost gate $$ < Perceived Sponsorship value = Woodwinds.

Practicality has nothing to do with this. If the gate receipts are even once they're allowed, or the guess is that it won't harm gate take, they're in. Period, end of story.

I'm trying to remain philosophical about it, since it's not what I want. At the same time, dollars rule. If the equation remains as it stands right now, which is that gate would probably hurt more than the addition of woodwinds, this will be ok. But the grand experiment really is how people perceive electronics. If people really are annoyed with them, you'll see woodwinds parked. However if you can sneak in some sounds and no one notices (see: BD 2007 electronics), you'll find that it will embolden the leadership to assume that "people say they don't want them, but they'll keep coming back." If that opinion becomes a majority opinion, the game is up, and there will be woodwinds.

It's politics and dollars, people. It's not ego. I know it seems like ego, but the directors I have met are in the end very level-headed. They're also risk-takers, and if they think adding woodwinds will help their organizations, they will add them.

Besides, there's not any technical hurdle they won't already have jumped. It's just a financial decision now.