mn trumpter guy

As a person who wore both helmets and shakos... I liked the helmets more from a unique-tradition standpoint (and foolishly, selfishly complained when we switched... I feel badly about that), but the shakos CERTAINLY are easier to make look good. And, yes, I would like some more blue. But MOSTLY... I just want the team to do well, put on a great show, and have a great experience.

THANK YOU! The issue here, to me at least, is the assumption that marching band is solely entertainment. Is entertainment the goal? Why, yes, but isn't that also one of the goals of a concert band? I teach band in a smaller town in Western Wisconsin- this is my first year teaching. While not the most demanding band schedule I've ever seen, there are a raft of requirements; marching bands, pep bands, etc. Do the kids complain about the requirements? yes, sometimes, but it helps that they know I must be there for everything as well, and the emphasis is on having fun, performing well, and giving something back to our community. As others have said: mandatory marching band is only a bad thing if the focus is EXCLUSIVELY as a function of sports. If the emphasis is instead on educational opportunities and new experiences for students, then sports-related performances are simply the medium.

I am very interested. Although I have loved Frank's brass books since about 2008, last year's whole production had clear issues (although I still think it was finals-worthy). I hope their brass can get their mojo back. And I wonder what's going on with Guard- I didn't see any mention of Michael Shapiro, so maybe he's staying?

EVER! NEVER EVER. If there is ONE thing you believe in this world it's that there are NO black-and-whites- ONLY shades of grey, and NOTHING ELSE. [/sarcasm] Just kidding- I agree. I just love the irony of the saying "never speak in absolutes"

Thank you all for your thoughts. I've made the time since moving to become more involved on the forum here, and have from time to time found myself "erecting barriers" as Mr. Boo put it. I'm not sure if I was looking to have my life changed by my question; it was just something I've been thinking about. Moderators- feel free to close this thread, or let it die of its own accord. Thank you again!

I think it must be both! It's piqued to its peak!

Dear thread: I apologize. I've allowed myself to be taken off topic. I will cease and desist all non-topical postings. On that note (no pun intended): I am VERY excited to see what DVD does with Troop. also. Seriously- anyone know what's up with Aungst (possibly) leaving the Blue Stars? What a shame for them. Dude's a beast.

I'll be the first to admit: I'm not the most experienced dude around. Yeah, I marched for 4 years in World class (including finals), and yeah, I've taught for a few years, at both world and open class levels. But I was not raised around drum corps. It was not popular in my area, or my school. For 3 of my 5 years at college, I was the only music major to be involved. So, my question to you, oh DCP-verse is: How important is it, on these forums, to have experience marching in drum corps? Why? There are certainly some things that are best understood from experience. There are some discussions people who did not march might best avoid. But for the most part, I feel the discussions here are discussions someone who is only familiar from a 'fan' perspective can participate in. Therefore, part III is: Where is the line where experience starts to matter, if there is one? Feel free to answer, or not. I've just wondered for a while, and decided to pose the question to the masses, instead of perseverating on it myself. Plus, it's a while till November (and longer till June). Gotta kep busy somehow!

Nope. Not at all what I said. What I said was "I knew everything I needed to know, but my shortcomings were getting in my way." Are you really suggesting that someone blandly saying "work harder" is just as effective as someone saying it with energy? Where did I say they 'beat' it into me? Not at all. They were excited and invested in the moment, and I fed off their energy and commitment. There were zero negative consequences. I honestly don't see what is wrong with that situation. Is your assertion that BDB is better than BD because they rehearse less? Because what I said was "more rehearsal, for most groups, will create a better end product." So are you saying BDB would score lower with more rehearsal time? Because that makes zero sense. And if you want to expand that to all "open class"... you're arguing that Blue Saints, Les Stentours, 7th Regiment, Legends, EVERYONE would score better if they rehearsed less? Because again... I said that "more rehearsal will help them score better" in regards to most drum corps. And it's great that that works for them; I'm glad they and you seem to believe so strongly in their methodology. I like the experience I got out of my drum corps. My friend who started with Pioneer, then moved to Blue Stars, then to Madison enjoyed his experience. My friend who marched Revolution and worked his way to Cavaliers loved his time in drum corps. Why is it your place to say the Blue Devils' approach is "best"? What measure gives that firm of an evaluation OTHER than championships. So although you have not stated, verbatim "winning is all that matters," your vehemence that BD's method is the ONLY right way to approach the activity says just that. Why? I loved working my butt off all day every day. It was awesome. It's also not normal to run around with instruments and flags, but we do it anyways. Still waiting for the "why" here. Also, I work my butt off at my job, including most weekends, and I love it. I wouldn't trade my job for any other in the world. It's awesome. No worries- I won't "red neg" you. I'll just feel bad that you seem to have no respect for anything but a group that wins. What is funny is that my "stupid, insane, abusive" drum corps experience made me WAY healthier, mentally, emotionally, and physically, than any other activity I've ever been involved in. My body handled it just fine. So... speak for yourself on the "our bodies can't handle it."... I guess. Out of sheer curiosity- did you actually march anywhere? Or is this all from a "theoretical" standpoint. Because that would explain a lot. The "coincidence" you've laid out: BD has an approach. They win a lot. Your conclusion is: BD's approach is the best. The only possible measure give you that conclusion is if you are measuring "best" by championship trophies. Conversely, here's my set of facts: BD has an approach. They win a lot. Their members enjoy their experience. The members of most, if not all, other drum corps enjoy THEIR experience(s) Here's my conclusion: A lot of different people enjoy a lot of different things.

They definitely go places other people don't. I think it's a hard sell that people don't go there because they are "afraid" to. I think it likely that they don't go there because they don't want to; most groups try to entertain as many people as possible. some also try to push the boundaries of drum corps. Personally, I feel like BD's design team thinks about entertaining as a secondary (or at least not primary) objective. Not that that is better or worse than other teams. It's just my impression, based on their designs. DISCLAIMER: I actually found their show this year very interesting (though not 2008-2011).

Honest question: are you being sarcastic? I can't tell. I liked their shows... Neither of those words describe it, IMO. If you are serious: how do you see those two things? My curiosity is peaked.

I know this was a while ago, but it was a great question, so I feel I should answer it. I knew what I needed to know. What I didn't realize was that, emotionally, I wasn't invested in what i was doing- the specific event I remembered right away was during my first year- I was really an idiot, and not just mostly one. Simply telling me "I feel like you're not giving me your all" would have been ineffective; I truly felt I was. What I didn't know was that there was a whole other emotional level that I wasn't aware of. For me, the best way to get emotion out of someone is to give them emotion. That doesn't necessarily mean yelling, but in some cases, that works. In and of itself, it doesn't demean anyone. If the relationship is right, it can communicate something on a more basic level than words; namely, an emotion or feeling. Except you completely missed the point of my post: winning isn't everything, and just because something works for one person does not mean it will work for anyone else. The Blue Devils, as an organization, function because of their circumstances; a feeder system that builds a single approach. A mindset of most of the people who march there (and yeah, I've known enough to make that statement). They have a specific style of show that they do (think broader than theme). For most, if not all, other corps, a feeder system like they have is not an option. That rules out the 'single approach for years and years'. Blue Devils don't have to worry about teaching a technique; their people, for the most part, already know what's up. Hence, they can afford to do other things differently than other corps. Are you suggesting that less rehearsal would help all open class corps get higher scores? Or even most of the rest of World Class? Ridiculous. exactly.

1978 Blue Stars. The show opened with a soprano solo from the DM podium. And Tambourine.

One should never, ever, speak in absolutes. It is ALWAYS terrible. In all seriousness; I know there were certainly times when I marched that was glad my staff was yelling at me. It made me angry at myself and that helped me focus on what I needed to do. It got my adrenaline flowing and renewed my energy. Is it always good? heck no. Is it sometimes useful for this or that purpose? yup. At least it was for me. Point is: different strokes for different folks. Yelling is a tool, with a specific purpose and use in mind. It can be productive. In the case y'all are discussing, it sounds like it was not productive, but it can be from time to time. I hear rumors that BD sleeps late a lot. I KNOW they have a relaxed retreat. What do they eat for food? Maybe everyone should do those things too. Let's all wear blue and black, and have our tubas wear berets. Let's put on shows that some people enjoy and #### some people off. EVERYONE BE THE SAME NOW!!!! I know you don't mean that, but isn't the point of drum corps to offer a variety of products and experiences, so we can find the one that fits us best? Everyone I know who marched at Phantom says they got chewed out A LOT and loved it. Like I said: different strokes for different folks. Unless it's all about winning. Then we should all put on shows that put the sheets first, and audience enjoyment second. There will, after all, still be some people who dig what happens. PS: I know that all sounds really negative towards BD. I apologize- don't mean to attack them. They do their thing very well (and I actually enjoyed it this year). The point is, we all can do different things, and that's awesome.

To me, that is an argument to increase the effect of the field score, rather than to remove the score altogether.

Many groups have some amount from year to year. Things happen; my old caption head stopped caption-heading because his wife had a child, and he needs to be at home. Complete overhauls are not super common, but they do happen. Sometimes, though, a complete change in staff does not bode ill; if the technique stays the same, but the staff changes, it can be good.

How did it work? Well? not well? It had to be weird for the marching members. Random thought: this could revolutionize drum corps instruction; it would change 180 degrees from what I was always told. I was told to never listen to the pit. If we moved them to the back sideline, it would be "When are you supposed to listen to the pit?" "ALWAYS!"

I'm sure you knew some of these, if not all. But a lot of this stuff has been done.

Not from where I was sitting! Then again... I was sitting basically in the middle of BDB. So that might explain things.

I know FSUbone responded to this (and did a pretty good job), but I thought I would add my $.02 There is DEFINITELY a difference between 'engagement' and 'entertainment' or 'enjoyment'. Many, MANY people thought that entertainment was going to be on the sheets, and assumed that's what'engagement' meant. Hence the flood of negative reactions to BD's show; it was not what most would call 'entertaining'. I think 'engagement' means is it interesting- is there something going on that the audience gets involved in, be that involvement of the "throwing babies" persuasion, or the "scratch your head and figure out what just happened to you" persuasion.

You are, of course, absolutely right. For every kid out there who is only in things for themselves, there are tons who want to be a part of something great. Who do everything without compromising quality or character. Thank you for bringing us back to the positive.

Personally I wouldn't go to that extreme (that was my interpretation of Stu's viewpoint.) Like I said though: I have noticed my students not understanding that the world is not always accommodating to their every whim. Is that because of dci? Heck no- none of them march (yet). My guess is its a product of how our world and culture has changed. We are so accommodating to very thing that when something logistically can't work, some people just flat out don't know what to do.

I could be incorrect (it does happen from time to time ) I believe Stu's point is 2-fold. 1) If the university, corporation, etc. wanted to require attendance and not make an exception, it is fully in their rights to do so. 2) While it is great that people and corporations and universities are cooperating, one possible side effect is that when compromise is not possible, people are getting more and more incapable of prioritizing and making decisions effectively. Especially with this second point, I have to agree; I have witnessed even in my own students get focused on what they want to happen, and what is a realistic option.

I know it would be very easy for a band director to have a few kids in corps who came back, were bored with how easy everything was, had bad attitudes (maybe quit), and just put the kabbash on the whole 'drum corps' issue. I understand; but I honestly feel this is a case of a few rotten apples spoiling the bunch. However, I also know that a lot of corps people- particularly here on DCP, where we are more anonymous than the real life, have shown disdain for high school bands. If we think those kids aren't on here reading, we are insane; I personally know some high schoolers who have seen this attitude and decided not to march because they didn't want to be around the people who hated them. Not calling out anyone here- just food for the collective thought.

I have thought about this often; instead of a 'spending' cap, you could do a 'price' cap- use the price of each item in the pit- a new version of this keyboard costs X amount, plus a new speaker is Y, etc. This might equalize the playing field a bit?