3rd_Star_Brigade Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) I thought that I would take the oppuruntity to make this comparison between Arnold Schoenberg, the father of 12-tone serialism (atonality), and George Hopkins, director of YEA!, as to provide some interesting intellectual discussion. Arnold Schoenberg was a composer who started off writing romantic compositions, much like Debussy. As time went on, Schoenberg took a closer look at the Overtone series and saw the progression of time lay before him. What struck him was the evolution of musical intervals, and their role as being "accepted" into the musical palette. He then took a look at the seventh overtone (microtonally tuned) and the other, more dissonant musical intervals. He then proclaimed in his theory that musical history was the gradual acceptance of these intervals, and therefore, it was inevitable that they become accepted in the future as music continued to progress. 12-tone serialism was the result of this. Arnold Schoenberg spent years trying to develope the perfect system for his atonal compositions. As a result, and the popular outcry, atonality and serialism became controversial and the status quo among academic elitists for composition through much of the 20th century. Now, the neo-romantic movement is popular, and serialism is seen as a bit out-dated. George Hopkins started out marching with the Crossmen (& 507) as a percussionist. During his time at West Chester University, he marched one season in the marching band and from what I can put together did not like it. When he became director, he had new visions for the activity, along with a team of pioneers for the DC activity. Over the years, George came to believe that the drum corps activity would grow as a result of innovation. It was inevitable that certain things that were legal elsewhere become legal in DCI, as to allow a freedom for artistic growth. Drum Corps history had gradually been accepting of these innovations in brass and percussion (like valves and pit), so it was inevitable that the rest should follow. As a result, and the popular outcry, amplification, electronics, instrumentation, and voice are controversial. Will a similar experience happen to the DCI circuit as has happened to Music and its recent history? Discuss. I welcome any and all criticism. Edited February 2, 2008 by 3rd_Star_Brigade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rd_Star_Brigade Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbones7480 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 507 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Drum Corps history had gradually been accepting of these innovations in brass and percussion (like valves and pit), so it was inevitable that the rest should follow. As a result, and the popular outcry, amplification, electronics, instrumentation, and voice are controversial. Will a similar experience happen to the DCI circuit as has happened to Music and its recent history?Discuss. I welcome any and all criticism. Very well done. That is an interesting look at this whole scenario. Although Hopkins may not agree with the comparison to Schoenberg, and I don't blame him, I do think that your synopsis has some validity to it. I have always believed that what Hoppy did was for the best for DCI. I don't think he would intentionally try to hurt the activity. Some have said he is the anti-Christ of drum corps, and stuff like that, but in all fairness I believe there is more to it. I think he has meant well and has truly believed that the current move will eventually pay dividends for DCI. The jury is still out on that I think. But, I also like your last few sentences. I have long thought that if all this voice, amp, and electronic stuff fails that we may just see a return to the more traditional style of drum corps, or as you put it, a neo-traditional style. Some think that such a thing will never occur, and some are very skeptical, which I can totally understand. There was a big movement by some to try and reverse the process this year, but as with change of this nature, the change or the migration to another way can often take years, even decades. This truly is what history has taught us. Take a look at music in general. It took decades for early jazz to evolve to big band swing, yet it only took under a decade for Be-bop to somewhat fade from popularity, making way for Cool Jazz or West Coast Jazz. As much as I love Be-bop, it is hard to find live performances. If you're in a big city there are clubs with live jazz, and certainly you hear it at the best universities and colleges, but on a grand scale it is dead. Maynard Ferguson's band used big-band jazz and combined that with popular music to create a unique sound and style that was popular for decades, but he also changed his band a lot over the years. The neo-romantic movement you speak of has certainly been affected by today's motion picture industry. It is undeniable what movie composers have given to the music world. The fact that their music is now on CD, and in some cases is just as popular as the movie itself, gives clear evidence of their power on the masses; and that has certainly affected the college theory scholars who for a long time could not compose enough atonal music. Now they are moving in a different direction. Their desire to be published and knowing full well what works has helped them to change course, and with many serious orchestras performing more pops concerts, and in turn performing many motion picture scores, it makes sense that this style would come back. John Williams is noted for his scholarly approach to paying tribute to the music of Shostakovich, Strauss, Hindemith, and even Wagner. In some cases 80 to over 100 years later this "Romantic" music is being explored by a guy who gets hired to write a science fiction adventure about space and war. Since that day in 1977 the motion picture soundtrack has not been the same, yet it took several more decades before other motion picture scores would help to fortify this movement, and that in conjunction with other musical ideas that have sprouted have helped to force the atonal world into submission. It is not improbable that such a thing could happen with DCI. There is no way instructors, caption heads, and the directors of DCI corps are going to reverse this course of change so soon. They have not had enough time to explore, to fine tune and perfect the possibilities that exist due to new rules changes. If such a neo-traditional movement eventually takes place, chances are it could be 10 to 20 years from now. It could be 50 years from now. Drum corps could be extinct in 50 years, and then some college student does a paper on some form of marching activity that used to exist (drum corps), and the paper is so good that more exploration and research is done, and the next thing you know, someone is making an independent film on the subject. But they need music, and some old recordings are dug up (Madison Scouts 1975), and BAM, they are hooked. The film is a success, people start to inquire, a throw-back corps is started, kind of similar to how colleges today have Baroque and Renaissance ensembles and the like. People enjoy it, think it's neat, and a new activity is sprung to life that resembles 1975 to 1985. Pretty far fetched I know, but not totally out of the possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leadsop97 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I'm not going to talk about Hopkins, but to this day I cannot find a piece by Shoenberg that I like. Didn't everyone think that valved bugles and stationary pits were going to be the end of drum corps though? For some reason I feel that since drum corps people are very open minded (most of the time) that even though right now new rule changes will be controversial, in a few years that will pass. Most people have accepted amplification and have moved on. I'm sure the same will happen with the new rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsreed Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 What truly amaze me about DCI is how the director who leads a corps that was booed off the field, heckled during their show, is arguably the least entertaining corps(with the most talent!), has received the coldest reception from fans for years seems to have the most influence in the activity. Save the fans, save the activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopOnOverInnovation Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 The major difference is that where Schoenberg was able to start a Society for private musical performances (where modern music would be more appreciated), Hopkins is stuck with everyone's DCI. Schoenberg didn't bother dealing with conservative concert-goers. He saw no reason to try to convince them that he was right, as they would never have given up and acknowledged the brilliance of his (or his pupils') music. Hopkins on the other hand attempts to force his vision on angry conservative fans. It is a hopeless situation, and yet he continues to pursue his goals. In the case of drum corps there can be no winner. Until Hopkins tries something else I simply cannot agree with his beliefs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardman Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 None of this will matter to me. I will be long gone even if others "accept" the changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euphanasia Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I'm not a fan of Hopkins... however, I am a HUGE fan of Schoenberg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOReason Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Very well done. Although Hopkins may not agree with the comparison to Schoenberg, and I don't blame him, I do think that your synopsis has some validity to it.... Not to mention what Mr. Schoenberg would think! That sound you hear is Schoenberg turning in his grave... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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