Artsy fartsy?

[Piper]

I've always liked Drum Corps for the brass and perc sections. The guard is OK if it has a good weapons section, but flags and props are mostly boring and/or distracting. I would eliminate and replace them with more horns.

[kusankusho]

I've always liked Drum Corps for the brass and perc sections. The guard is OK if it has a good weapons section, but flags and props are mostly boring and/or distracting. I would eliminate and replace them with more horns.

I couldn't go for this. The flags are the biggest thing out there visually and the design can compliment the mood of the music in ways that rifles and sabres don't get across.

[MikeD]

I sense I touched a nerve with that comment.

No, not at all...just responding to "Using lumber and rubber tires? Um....no." which I inferred to mean Crown's show (maybe that is not what you meant?)...and I put a on the post to keep it light.

[MikeD]

But the title of the thread comes not from an old drum corps member, but a current band director.

Yes, I know...but it is still an attitude someone has..and that tude gets posted here regularly.

I believe that it is possible to criticize some of what is being now -- and holding up some past groups as an ideal by which to demonstrate that point -- while still supporting the activity, itself. In fact, that is often done with the very intention of moving the activity forward, not staying in the past. But by bringing up what was good about the past, it is possible to improve the present, and hopefully the future. My comments earlier about uniforms and writing are not to deride what is being done now, but to point out what I see as flaws in what's being done now. There's a difference. Flaws can be corrected. Derision is merely expressing contempt, and that's not something I feel.

Took out the CE'ish stuff in case someone doesn't like it.

I don't lump you in with the ones I am really talking about. You have experience and back up your opinion, even if I don't agree with it much of the time.

Nothing wrong with loving the past. For me, I just do not want to recreate it outside of the alumni corps experience. I have great memories of corps shows going back to the 60's.

[MikeD]

Well, if you're talking about demand, I will concede that point. But if you're talking about how cleanly the respective shows are performed, there's no question that Cavaliers, Skylarks, 27th Lancers, etc., were far, far cleaner than what's being done today. And that's an ideal worthy of respecting now every bit as much as it was then, because I'm certain that to get it to that level of cleanliness throughout the entire ensemble, it's not nearly as "easy" as many people seem to think it is.

The goal back in those days was the stock-still rock-solid execution, so yes, in THOSE terms then was cleaner than now. That was the aim of performing. The total use of the body today is just so different I would not say that those guards were 'far, far cleaner'...just clean in a different way.

I do not think the achievement of the old guards was easy, fyi...but IMO the achievement level of today requires so many simultaneous responsibilities of body and equipment, plus staying in 'character'...it is amazing to me.

[byline]

Go back and watch some videos of Skylarks and then put on Fantasia , Northern Lights, or Pride of Cincinnati from 06, and explain how you can see them as being competitive?

Well, having attended WGI finals last April and then having attended them for many years in the '80s, I can see those '80s guards being every bit as competitive as the current ones. And I also have the DVDs, so it's not at all difficult for me to make comparisons that are not based solely on my memory.

As someone who has spent much of my adult life dissecting performances, I agree that today's guards handle a huge amount of demand, and I have a lot of admiration for what they're doing. But let's take this down a level. Rather than talking about the top guards, which everyone seems to focus on, let's talk about some of the "lesser" guards. I've marched in two different situations, one back in the '70s and then one in the '90s, and the differences in teaching were quite dramatic. When I marched in the '70s, even in Oakland, where we didn't pay nearly as much attention to breaking down and fine-tuning individual technique as, say, 27th Lancers, there was still quite a bit of attention paid to that process. But guard rehearsals with an all-age corps in the '90s were quite a different experience. Basically, the instructor stood in front of the guard and asked us to mimic him. And this was doing work that was quite difficult, with many different levels and complex elements to pull together and incorporate into one visual movement. So, in that scenario, if anything there should have been a greater emphasis on breaking down all the different facets, cleaning them individually, then pulling them together into that one motion and cleaning it again. Instead, we were simply asked to mimic what the instructor did, with no breakdown of technique. Needless to say, that manifested itself into a guard that didn't really look much like a guard, but many individuals all attempting to do more or less the same thing. And what bothered me is that they really didn't seem concerned about that. They were just happy to be doing what they felt was "cool" work, but weren't concerned about whether the entire guard was truly capable of pulling it off. That was a big part of why I ended up quitting. When I asked questions about timing, what count do I catch on, what are my body positions on various counts, etc., I got these looks, not only from the instructor but also the rest of the guard, and it became clear to me that this kind of emphasis -- what I'm sure they considered an overemphasis -- on timing and technique was not welcome. I was getting in their way rather than helping. But being in an environment in which that focus was unwelcome was not something I could accept (especially as I thought ahead to what I would need to know in order to perform with confidence), so I left.

I don't pretend that that's the experience of all guards nowadays. Certainly it wouldn't be for the best ones. But, because I've see that same lack of clarity in many field guards, I have to assume that that may be part of what's happening. If you're going to increase your level of demand (and, of course, when all the best guards do it, then everybody else has to do it too), then you have to be able to devote the requisite amount of cleaning to make that happen. (By the way, the reason I know so much about this is because it's a "been there, done that" experience for me as an instructor.)

The biggest difference I see is that the field guards nowadays, compared with what they were back in the '70s and '80s, are not nearly as clean. With winter guard, I don't see as much of a difference in terms of cleanliness and technique. But I see a lot of things happening in field guards (and not just with the most difficult work) that you just didn't see in field guards back then. Now, I will grant you that as the difficulty level is increased, it's only natural that the chances for performance breaks will increase. But that doesn't diminish the fact that it's happening.

Also, I'm not one of those people who insist that drops never happened back in my day. They did, but there were fewer of them. And there's no question that as the level of demand has ramped up (and, conversely, with the judges' emphasis on execution inching downward), the level of cleanliness just is not the same. Whether that's better or worse is not my point, though obviously my preference is for the cleanest possible performance. The point I'm trying to make, and one it seems is too lightly dismissed, is that to get an entire ensemble to perform as cleanly as, say, the 27th Lancers, Phantom Regiment, Madison Scouts, Cavaliers, whomever . . . was not a breeze then, and wouldn't be now. You can't just watch a video and say, "Oh, heck, I could do that in my sleep!" The true challenge of those shows was to take the work and then have the entire ensemble perform it to the level demanded by the judging system at that time. That simply is not the cakewalk many people seem to be assuming.

Edited February 22, 2008 by byline

[Sutasaurus]

we must be from the same school of thought.

the thing that strikes me most about today's designers is the anti-visual crescendo. The brass and drums reaching a big crescendo and the guard is dancing with little or no equipment. I always thought color was one of the best ways to emphasize the big impacts within the show structure.

on the flip side...I love how much more integrated the guard is within the body of the rest of the corps. No more backfield off 25 yards waving to and fro...but right in the mix of things.

my thoughts at this moment.

Guess we're twin sons of different mothers Tom. A perfect example of this would be the entire guard passing through a rotating horn/drum box while spinning like mad. Makes me jump up and say Wow!

[byline]

the thing that strikes me most about today's designers is the anti-visual crescendo. The brass and drums reaching a big crescendo and the guard is dancing with little or no equipment. I always thought color was one of the best ways to emphasize the big impacts within the show structure.

on the flip side...I love how much more integrated the guard is within the body of the rest of the corps. No more backfield off 25 yards waving to and fro...but right in the mix of things.

my thoughts at this moment.

I had been away from drum corps for 22 years before becoming involved again and the first time I saw a show after all that time, the biggest change to me was the color guard. Honestly, at first it was shocking. After I got used to it and started watching what they do I was amazed at their agility, but it certainly wasn't "my drum corps". I have to admit, while I like some of the dancing, I really miss the skill needed to work those rifles for a whole show or when they used to do amazing things with the flags. The precision is what I miss. Instead of having 20 rifles in perfect sync, I now see maybe 1 or 2 doing a fancy toss and then off they go for more dancing. This may be the part I like least about the changes I've seen in the last 22 years.

Very much agree with the observations made by both posters.

[skewerz]

I'd like to see more unison weapon and flag work at today's shows. It's doesn't have to be all the time, but some would be nice...

Do you remember the crowd reaction Crown's guard got at the beginning of the horse race last year? Single line unison rifle spins with a ripple toss? Crowd ate it up.

Big flags used to greatly enhance horn line hits...I remember Crossmen bringing out big silver flags during a big hornline hit back in the 80's (can't remember what year, sadly...85-87 most likely). It was awesome...

[morganhill]

IMO, some of today's "drum corps" have become far too artsy and way overly fartsy. CBC, r u listening?

Edited February 22, 2008 by morganhill