markdewine Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Heaven forbid DCI be put in charge of our National Archives!!! LOL They would toss the Declaration of Independence in the trash, and say, "Oh, we have it stored electronically somewhere. Don't we?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottgordon Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 (edited) Heaven forbid DCI be put in charge of our National Archives!!! LOL They would toss the Declaration of Independence in the trash, and say, "Oh, we have it stored electronically somewhere. Don't we?" That's not a fair characterization of the situation. DCI has been very supportive of the mammoth task of properly storing, digitizing, and cataloging the massive historical libraries of Ken Kobold, Alf Wateska, Stetson Richmond, and others. Most people have no idea the thousands of hours of work a particular poster in this thread (not me) has put into this effort. They have not "tossed them in the trash". That said, it's true that DCI hasn't made copies of the entire library available on demand. But it is also the case that DCI has become a higher profile entity than it was in the Ken Kobold days. DCI isn't in a position to go on ESPN today, and then go violating copyrights on the sly tomorrow, without somebody noticing. DCI is not in a position anymore to risk a cease-and-desist court order. And although I'm not a lawyer, I strongly suspect that DCI could be culpable when someone else releases a DCI show and DCI fails to tell them to stop. So basically, it comes down to money. If DCI is going to sell copies of the 1948 Germantown Dragons, they need reason to believe that they will sell enough copies to cover the cost of purchasing distribution rights to the songs on THAT recording. Otherwise, they simply won't have the resources to do it for all of the thousands of recordings that may get 10 or 20 requests. Just multiply the costs, and the income, and you've got yourself a negative cash flow. When they say "nobody's interested", I have to wonder if what they really mean is, "we don't think enough people are interested to make it feasible". And with the radical new artisic direction drumcorps is headed, I fear sadly that it is going to take a much more tangible show of support for old-school drumcorps for anything to be done about securing the copyrights of thousands of legacy recordings. I too wish there were a way to release the old recordings/videos/etc. Rather than lay blame, share your ideas for ways of solving this problem. I think about it often, and I really wish I could think of a solution - short of some rich old-school benefactor riding in on a white horse to save the day. Edited February 20, 2008 by scottgordon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markdewine Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 scottgordon- Relax man. I was just poking fun at the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 (edited) And although I'm not a lawyer, I strongly suspect that DCI could be culpable when someone else releases a DCI show and DCI fails to tell them to stop. Not a lawyer either but this is how Mad magazine won a lawsuit filed against them for using the "Alfred E Newman" (What Me Worry) image back in the late 50s/early 60s. Heirs of the copyright holder knew of "mom & pop" operators using the image and didn't try to stop them. When Mad used it, the heirs saw dollar signs and sued big time. When the judge found that the copyright owners "neglected to protect the copyright" by stopping the (known) mom & pop users, the judge threw out the case. Not only that, Mad was allowed to continue to use the copyrighted image (Alfreds face). Bottom line: protect your property against all unauthorized uses or you could lose the copyright. When preparing for the case, Mad actually asked the readers to send in any images they knew of that looked like Alfred. The magazine owners were hoping for a few unauthorized uses that the copyright owners knew about but did not protect. Heh, Mad ended up getting hundreds of the image in different forms. Better say that came from "History of Mad Magazine".. of course copyrighted. So basically, it comes down to money. If they're going to sell copies of the 1948 Germantown Dragons, they need reason to believe that they will sell enough copies to cover the cost of purchasing distribution rights to the songs on THAT recording. Otherwise, they simply won't have the resources to do it for all of the thousands of recordings that may get 10 or 20 requests. Just multiply the costs, and the income, and you've got yourself a negative cash flow. When they say "nobody's interested", I have to wonder if what they really mean is, "we don't think enough people are interested to make it feasible". I've read somewhere (might have been email from the same poster) that the DCW recordings are starting with shows that have a better chance of selling. Then with money from those sales, it will be possible to release more shows from the less known corps. Ooops, note to self to check the DCW list as it's been a while.... Edited February 20, 2008 by JimF-3rdBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apoch003 Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 That's not a fair characterization of the situation. DCI has been very supportive of the mammoth task of properly storing, digitizing, and cataloging the massive historical libraries of Ken Kobold, Alf Wateska, Stetson Richmond, and others. Most people have no idea the thousands of hours of work a particular poster in this thread (not me) has put into this effort. They have not "tossed them in the trash".That said, it's true that DCI hasn't made copies of the entire library available on demand. But it is also the case that DCI has become a higher profile entity than it was in the Ken Kobold days. You can't go on ESPN today, and then go violating copyrights on the sly tomorrow, without somebody noticing. They're not in a position anymore to risk a cease-and-desist court order. And although I'm not a lawyer, I strongly suspect that DCI could be culpable when someone else releases a DCI show and DCI fails to tell them to stop. So basically, it comes down to money. If they're going to sell copies of the 1948 Germantown Dragons, they need reason to believe that they will sell enough copies to cover the cost of purchasing distribution rights to the songs on THAT recording. Otherwise, they simply won't have the resources to do it for all of the thousands of recordings that may get 10 or 20 requests. Just multiply the costs, and the income, and you've got yourself a negative cash flow. When they say "nobody's interested", I have to wonder if what they really mean is, "we don't think enough people are interested to make it feasible". And with the radical new artisic direction drumcorps is headed, I fear sadly that it is going to take a much more tangible show of support for old-school drumcorps for anything to be done about securing the copyrights of thousands of legacy recordings. I too wish there were a way to release the old recordings/videos/etc. Rather than lay blame, share your ideas for ways of solving this problem. I think about it often, and I really wish I could think of a solution - short of some rich old-school benefactor riding in on a white horse to save the day. Don't lay blame? You proceded to tell us why we should. Let me summarize what you just said... "There isn't enough interest in selling you legacy recordings, but if you have your own legacy recordings, we'll sue you for copyright infringement." Ridiculous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apoch003 Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 You know how you have to get an artists permission to play his tunes on the air? Well, I give you all my permission to play any argonaut recording from 1980 through 1987, as it was ME playing the music, not DCI. Feel free to distribute any of these recording as you please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottgordon Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 (edited) Don't lay blame? You proceded to tell us why we should. Let me summarize what you just said..."There isn't enough interest in selling you legacy recordings, but if you have your own legacy recordings, we'll sue you for copyright infringement." Ridiculous! Maybe I wasn't clear... the copyright holder isn't DCI, it's the original authors of the music. You might want to go back and re-read my post (I have tried to re-edit it for clarity). Also, I never said it was illegal to OWN a legacy recording, just illegal to distribute it without having obtained the rights to do so from the original copyright holders. I doubt that DCI would sue anybody for releasing something. ASCAP is more likely to sue - and you don't want to be sued by ASCAP, that I assure you. In fact, if a bunch of rampant distribution were going on, they'd most likely sue DCI. Edited February 20, 2008 by scottgordon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottgordon Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 You know how you have to get an artists permission to play his tunes on the air? Well, I give you all my permission to play any argonaut recording from 1980 through 1987, as it was ME playing the music, not DCI. Feel free to distribute any of these recording as you please. Haha! Sadly, it doesn't work that way. Did you write the songs? I don't mean "arrange", I mean "compose". If not, copyright isn't owned by you, nor the Argonauts, nor DCI. None of those agents have the right to grant authorization to distribute those recordings, unfortunately. This is one of the reasons that corps these days are performing more and more original music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apoch003 Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Well THAT makes sense. Too bad the music isn't really melody based. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppet Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Well THAT makes sense. Too bad the music isn't really melody based. :) But, you know that at one time it was. Archives? Legacy? check out… http://www.fleetwoodsounds.com/ The history is still alive. Puppet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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