DCA is "filling a void" left by DCI's Super Corps Model

[EndzoneEric]

Corps like Arizona Academy throw water all over this argument (it will be a year before they can choose to throw water on the field). They heaped TONS of criticism on DCP for doing much less than a full tour last season. They stayed out of extended tours, most likely cut their costs and still finished 13th. Not bad for a regional touring corps.

In the Monday morning quarterback discussions I've had with some of my fellow "old heads" on this subject, I've heard one analogy repeated over and over as to why Academy's model is a bad thing. Essentially, my buddies feel that "allowing" Academy to do a limited tour and compete at the Worlds is roughly akin to a NASCAR team who only picks a few races in order to save money, but still gets to race for the cup at the end. Obviously, this analogy doesn't include the points system that racing uses to make every race important, and for all we know, DCI could do something like that too, somewhere down the road. If there is this kind of sentiment against Academy, and presumably against others with a limited tour like Pacific Crest and Mandarins, I'm sure it will only increase if corps like Spartans and Surf decide to stick with their "mostly weekend" format and limit the scope of their touring as well. Maybe DCI is going to have to eventually create a "regional touring" champion and a "national touring" champion. Maybe that would encourage more corps... or maybe not.

[Tom Brace]

The question was posed...where is the void?

If I may.....

There is a void in opportunity for the music student or drum corps enthusiast who cannot afford to "get on the bus". Not just afford to march in the new DCI monetary model, but also cannot afford the time spent during a summer where an internship or summer job are equal in priority to participating in making music.

Mind you, the opportunity to do well at both used to exist for that type of student. You'd work during the day, have midweek evening rehearsal, travel to local contest on the weekend (with Saturday & Sunday all-days built in) then head back home and do it again until "tour" which was 2 weeks or so...but NOT the WHOLE summer.

Responsibilities met...fun activity participated in...sights seen...friends made...couple o' bucks saved for school...sounds like a good summer to me.

Can't do that if the requirement to participate in ONE eliminates the other entirely. Limited Tour / weekend model means "hey, I bet I can do BOTH".

"Get on the bus" means "no summer gig."

Let me try to personalize this with an example:

If I am a college student at University of Washington...music major or business major, doesn't matter...I used to have the opportunity to do corps with the Oregon Crusaders, Seattle Cascades, Spartans, or Marauders. Now I have no corps within 600 miles of me and, if I DO manage to get a spot in that corps over the winter, guess what I have to do to participate? "Get on the bus." No internship for me.

If I am a student in Montreal, it's a similar scenario. I used to have the opportunity with Academie Musicale, L'Insolite, Les Etoiles, or Dimension. Now? No corps in Quebec. Where do I go to march? If I need a summer job, looks like I don't.

The same in Ontario, Wisconsin, New York, Texas, Florida (!)...the same just about everywhere. If I want to be in drum corps but have ANY OTHER COMMITMENTS whatsoever, I am just about OUT OF LUCK....unless there's a corps near me that lets me do both.

Think about this:

The reason the Hurricanes, Bushwackers, Caballeros (Tri-State area), Statesmen, Brigadiers, Crusaders (upstate and Canada), Minnesota Brass (midwest), Renegades (California) are fielding nearly full corps these days is because they are getting YOUNGER and because there are no other CHOICES for the student type that is still looking for a place to play.

There is no more Patriots, Lancers, Ventures, Kips Bay, Kavaliers, LE Regiment, LV Knights, ECJ or Phoenix in the East/Canada. So where can I play? Pretty easy choice...it's Cabs, Hurcs, Bush, Empire or Cru.

It isn't DCA that is filling a void in the competitive activity...so much as it's DCA that fills a void of opportunity.

Can you say that it is almost by DEFAULT that this is happening? Maybe you can.

I am not sure that any DCA corps went out of there way to do ANYTHING differently to attract these newer, younger members. It might have just "happened."

They might have even said "holy crap! where did all these horn players come from?" at their winter rehearsals.

Fact is, those students DON'T have a home anymore at the Junior level. No local corps...no chance to play.

The point I'm making is there is STILL GOOD DRUM CORPS to be made on the WEEKEND. There's still GOOD DRUM CORPS that can be made with a limited touring model.

The PROOF is on the field!

I didn't jump out of my seat for the Buccaneers closer and stay standing for the last 30 seconds of their show just to be polite. I COULDN'T HELP IT! It was GOOD DRUM CORPS!

Same for Cabs.

Same for Empire.

Same for Renegades (OMG, that hornline!).

Same for Bushwackers '06 and '07 (horns in 06...wow!)

I am so thankful that the weekend student has these groups that present not only an opportunity for PARTICIPATION, but also an opportunity for EXCELLENCE.

Please...don't miss the point.

It isn't about right or wrong or DCA versus DCI.

We are where we are. How we got here isn't as important as WHERE WE GO FROM HERE.

The fact is that DCI's "get on the bus" model has created a slate of Super Corps at the expense of the rest. This is very hard to deny. What is gained at the top has an ancillary COST. Just this year, it cost Southwind and Seattle. And it's too late to turn the tide. It's pretty much done. If you had to guess, in the next 5 years, is it more likely that DCI will get 5 corps bigger or 5 corps smaller?

All-age...wherever they are... at least gives the "other" student a fighting chance to be in the conversation.

And to make GOOD DRUM CORPS.

What attendance totals do you have outside of the northeast to justify corps starting up in the rest of the country? In order to make good drum corps, you need to have money and people to come watch good drum corps.

DCM attendance during its last two seasons without the big guns (Cavies, PR, Bluecoats, Madison, Glassmen, Colts, etc.) diminished to a point where they had to call it quits of face losing money. To DCM it was important to remain in the black and not take chances on whether an audience would show up or not. I believe the creation of DCI-Central was put together to show that without these corps, a circuit couldn't last. I mean they even scheduled the DCI- Central finals in Michigan on the same weekend as DCM finals in DeKalb. Not too subtle. I believe DCM did a great job for as long as they could, (two years), but in the end, it just was not meant to be.

You need a sustaining audience for good drum corps. I think you may have that in the northeast and you should be happy and proud. Is there such an audience in California? Or is it to fill out a show containing Blue Devils and Santa Clara already? I don't know...I'm just asking. At least in the midwest, where there is ample competition to see drum corps, people were spending their money on the DCI product and not the DCM product (after the big corps left).

I mean I keep hearing that 7000 people attend finals. I think that's admirable. That's a decent sized crowd similar to the ISU crowd in June for DCI in Normal. Now, I've been to the show in Normal many times...the stadium is PACKED with high school students...it's during Midwest Band Clinic week. It's an outstanding opportunity for selling souvies...I know that first hand.

[Tom Brace]

Gonna call ######## here on the DCA comment.

You can't possibly tell me that the DCA champion corps from 2000 on (and probably earlier than that) couldn't compete with a DCI "Super" Corps today. Because I'll tell you, they could. I'm not saying they'd beat them, but I'm convinced that all the DCA champions from 2000 (and possibly even the top 3) until now would place as semi-finalist corps at minimum if they competed in DCI finals.

Yeah it's speculation, but the quality in DCA is that good now, even for weekend warriors. AND, if you gave those top DCA coprs the ability to rehearse as much as the DCI corps currently rehearse, they'd be just as good.

and that would be filling a void..how?

See the point of this thread isn't DCI BAD DCA GOOD is it?

Or is it.

[Dale Bari]

What attendance totals do you have outside of the northeast to justify corps starting up in the rest of the country? In order to make good drum corps, you need to have money and people to come watch good drum corps.

Are you talking about DCA? Or DCI?

[drumcat]

In the Monday morning quarterback discussions I've had with some of my fellow "old heads" on this subject, I've heard one analogy repeated over and over as to why Academy's model is a bad thing. Essentially, my buddies feel that "allowing" Academy to do a limited tour and compete at the Worlds is roughly akin to a NASCAR team who only picks a few races in order to save money, but still gets to race for the cup at the end. Obviously, this analogy doesn't include the points system that racing uses to make every race important, and for all we know, DCI could do something like that too, somewhere down the road. If there is this kind of sentiment against Academy, and presumably against others with a limited tour like Pacific Crest and Mandarins, I'm sure it will only increase if corps like Spartans and Surf decide to stick with their "mostly weekend" format and limit the scope of their touring as well. Maybe DCI is going to have to eventually create a "regional touring" champion and a "national touring" champion. Maybe that would encourage more corps... or maybe not.

Can we stop with the "Academy did half a tour" nonsense? They performed a slightly limited tour of still more than 20 shows based on the FACT that they a) happened to be located near a west coast finals site, an oddity as it was the only in 35 years, and b) agreed to represent DCI at the Rose Bowl for July 4th.

The fact is that had it been anywhere other than LA, they would have done a tour that no one would have complained about. However due to specific requests and circumstances, they did what made sense. Perpetuating this false concept of "letting" Academy do an "easy" tour is just plain disingenuous. Quit being revisionists and get over it.

[Tom Brace]

In the Monday morning quarterback discussions I've had with some of my fellow "old heads" on this subject, I've heard one analogy repeated over and over as to why Academy's model is a bad thing. Essentially, my buddies feel that "allowing" Academy to do a limited tour and compete at the Worlds is roughly akin to a NASCAR team who only picks a few races in order to save money, but still gets to race for the cup at the end. Obviously, this analogy doesn't include the points system that racing uses to make every race important, and for all we know, DCI could do something like that too, somewhere down the road. If there is this kind of sentiment against Academy, and presumably against others with a limited tour like Pacific Crest and Mandarins, I'm sure it will only increase if corps like Spartans and Surf decide to stick with their "mostly weekend" format and limit the scope of their touring as well. Maybe DCI is going to have to eventually create a "regional touring" champion and a "national touring" champion. Maybe that would encourage more corps... or maybe not.

I don't find the logic in their argument though.

You can't have full tours at all costs. You have to allow for goegraphical and financial differences somehow.

What I was pointing to is that not doing a full tour doesn't currently mean that a corps is penalized. The product on the field is what matters regardless of doing a full tour or not.

[Tom Brace]

Are you talking about DCA? Or DCI?

DCA only shows outside the northeast. Are there any? I don't know...Just trying to educate myself a bit more. And if there are...what's the attendance like?

Is it the 800-1500 shows of the DCM variety.

Is it larger...2500-3000.

I get the attendance figures at finals and they usually sell out with about 7000-7500. Is that butts in seats or paid crowd?

[Kyle B]

Well, going along with what Mike said, one could make the argument that members may look to joining DCA corps who can be very good while only practicing on weekends, instead of spending over $2000 and giving up the whole summer.

Where does filling the void come in...easy, should (never said they will) an Open class corps go on to DCA, there is a good chance they can get more membership from people under 21 since members can now balance a life with being in a corps which is hard being right out of high school. Since many Open Class corps members don't travel too far for rehearsals, they can see a growth of members within the surrounding communities plus people over 21.

And I'm sick of the "The top corps have members that will always do anything to march" attitude. That's not the case, as I've known several people in college and in other corps that have had to take a year off for school or to save up money for the following year.

[EndzoneEric]

Well, going along with what Mike said, one could make the argument that members may look to joining DCA corps who can be very good while only practicing on weekends, instead of spending over $2000 and giving up the whole summer.

Corps like Pacific Crest, Mandarins, Colt Cadets, Cap Sound, Teal Sound, Surf and Spartans (among others) do that now... right?

[Kyle B]

DCA also has a region called DCA-South that host their own shows, and soon will have DCA-West once there is another California corps to make the trip out to finals. Until then, DCA corps out west have exhibitions or do DCI shows on DCA sheets.

While I don't know the attendance, since these shows are yearly, I'd have to imagine that the corps that host them are making some profit out of them somehow.