DCA is "filling a void" left by DCI's Super Corps Model

[MikeD]

Tom, the anecdotal number on DCP might be 5 percent, but the actual number, I am pretty sure (based completely on my experience with DCA and its corps) is higher.... and in the case of several corps, that number is considerably higher.

I agree. My DCA exposure is East-coast...Northeast at that. Seems to be a lot of DCI vets marching in the corps I have seen, certainly more than 5%.

I think one reason (one reason...I'm sure there are several) that more DCI ageouts have not marched DCA is that DCA is still working to overcome perceptions that DCA corps, basically, are made up of a bunch of party-hearty old-timers. Quite frankly, there was a time when those perceptions were spread by some staff members of some junior corps. I'm pretty sure that practice is not common in this day and age; I sure hope so, since that perception of current-day DCA is simply not accurate.

It is a tough nut to crack. While wild horses could drag my wife to a DCI show, even they would not be able to drag her to a DCA show. Her memory is of slobby, cursing, crotch-scratching, stained underwear, beer-drinking, cigarette smoking people wandering around the parking lot and changing into their unis in public....the last senior show she attended was probably around 1977 or 78. That day was a pretty horrific sight, to be sure, but no matter how much I tell her it's waaaaaay different, she is just not interested....as drum corps falls somewhere near the bottom of her list of things to do in general.

[JimF-LowBari]

1990 - 17 corps in DCA Championships: 14 from NE, 3 not (82/18)

1995 - 15 corps: 14 from NE, 1 not (93/7)

2000 - 16 corps: 12 from NE, 4 not (75/25)

2005 - 26 corps: 12 from NE, 14 not (46/54)

2007 - 22 corps: 10 from NE, 12 not (45/55)

Random years again...the numbers looked to be on a nice trend and then you lost 4 this past year. That's over 15% of the corps not marching. DCI lost Southwind and Cascades, that's only 9.5%. And that's just considering World Class. So, who has the void?

As a background to hopefully give some perspective:

lowest number of corps at DCA was 13 in 1993 (not counting first two years of DCA existence)

greatest number of corps at DCA was that 26 in 2005

corps at 2005 and not at 2007: Grenadiers, Mon Valley, Skyliners and Carolina Gold, Heat Wave and Shenadoah Sound (may have missed one of the Class As). Two of those corps competed at Mini Corps which allowed them to stay in the public eye and keep some sort of group together. Far as the Finalist corps are concerned, Senior corps always seemed to be more dynamic than DCI. (dynamic = nicer way of saying corps going inactive or hitting Finalist status) Just the nature of the beast as far as the Weekend Warrior corps are concerned (lost count how my times my old corps went inactive and reformed). For almost ten years there was a new Quebec corps hitting DCA every other year (Cascadeurs/Ambassadeurs/L'Odysee/??????) which had some of us thinking it was basically the same group but changed names for provincal tax purposes.

Edit: Just remembered that 2005 DCA was few days after Katrina and gas went from $2 something to $3.25 or so day after DCA. Wonder how much of a unexpected hit that was to the non-NE corps going to DCA for the first time (mainly Frontier and Gulf Coast Sound).

Edited March 6, 2008 by JimF-3rdBari

[Fran Haring]

It is a tough nut to crack. While wild horses could drag my wife to a DCI show, even they would not be able to drag her to a DCA show. Her memory is of slobby, cursing, crotch-scratching, stained underwear, beer-drinking, cigarette smoking people wandering around the parking lot and changing into their unis in public....the last senior show she attended was probably around 1977 or 78. That day was a pretty horrific sight, to be sure, but no matter how much I tell her it's waaaaaay different, she is just not interested....as drum corps falls somewhere near the bottom of her list of things to do in general.

Good point, Mike.... we (us all-age members in those days) were our own worst enemy at times, back in the day.

Fran

[JimF-LowBari]

Good point, Mike.... we (us all-age members in those days) were our own worst enemy at times, back in the day.

Fran

At either Carlisle or Hershey my folks got the same "view" in the late 70s. They were in an area of the parking lot where corps members were parked looking for me before the show. Mom heard two guys talking behind her and turned to ask them a question. "And there they were, having a regular conversation while dropping their pants" Then she just laughed and conceded I wasn't in High School band anymore.

For the record I only dropped my drawers on the bus or in the equipment truck (I rode on the truck).

And today I wear gym shorts under sweatpants as the view did NOT improve with age....

Edited March 6, 2008 by JimF-3rdBari

[Piper]

Now that I look back on it, we were at a show one time with some DCA corps and everybody was suiting up in the lot (including our junior selves). The funniest part was watching some of the spectators who apparantly weren't all that familiar with Drum Corps, and couldn't believe that everybody was walking around as if it were nothing.

[Dale Bari]

OK...you are picking random years here...were their no shows in 2006? Or did that year not fit your argument?

So, number of performance opportunities are flat at best. Most years you show have fewer than 20 shows for the entire season and of the figures you present, 79.5% of the shows are in the NE historically. The trend since 2005 is to having roughly 1/3 of the shows outside the NE. Noted. Can you compare attendance/$$$ earned at the non-NE shows versus the NE shows. Also, I'd like to know the average number of DCA corps at the NE versus the non-NE shows. One more thing...of the 20 total shows, how many of them have DCI corps in them?

Random years again...the numbers looked to be on a nice trend and then you lost 4 this past year. That's over 15% of the corps not marching. DCI lost Southwind and Cascades, that's only 9.5%. And that's just considering World Class. So, who has the void?

Interesting stuff. Thanks for making me look deeper. I look forward to your answers about the apparent demise of DCI at the hands of DCI.

If you care to notice, I was sampling every 5 years, except for the last one. I thought you were a smart guy, Tom, but apparently you can't follow a pattern.

No, it was not most years with less than 20 shows as I sampled 5 years and 3 had more than 20. I thought you could at least count.

Look, I'm not going to do your homework for you. You asked a basic question, I gave you a sampling. If you want to check every single year, do it yourself. I got my info from www.fromthepressbox.com. Go look there.

I doubt anyone on DCP is going to be able to count up money earned for all the corps or the attendance. Go ask the show sponsors.

None of those shows that I counted had DCI corps in them. I didn't bother to count DCM shows. These were strictly DCA corps judged by DCA folks on DCA sheets.

Of the four that were "lost" from 2005 to 2007, one was Carolina Gold who took last year off, they are back this year. One was a corps that only came out for 1 year (Mon Valley Express).

I have nothing to say about the "demise of DCI at the hands of DCI", as that is not my ox you're trying to gore.

[wishbonecav]

I feel the urge to weigh in again, but it seems so pointless. There's good information being shared but it is getting lost in the nonsense.

I'm going to try, though...

here goes...

To hear that Academy took shots for their limited tour is to prove the point.

Yet we miss it.

Academy's presentation:

(1) was way cool in its throwback style, (you could actually hear a MELODY, they put plenty of air in the horns in the "production number" and they even had an extended park-and-blow that garnered a big response.)

(2) earned enough credit to place well competitively

(3) achieved in a limited tour fashion that was fiscally responsible

(4) was achieved by a BUNCH of LOCAL KIDS supported by LOCAL PARENTS and LOCAL STAFF

Amazing! and Pacific Crest manages to do it too! City of Angels was #### good drum corps!

Yet they were the target of criticism? Pressured by the "powers that be" to go for broke on the "whole tour"?

Where have all these groups gone?

Where has this opportunity gone?

Why, if it fails time and again...Avant Garde, Academie Musicale, Cascades, Southwind, Capital Regiment, Patriots, Esperanza, Limited Edition, Black Gold...and on and on...WHY CAN'T WE LOOK AT THE MODEL THAT LEADS TO ORGANIZATIONAL SUCCESS AND LONGEVITY RATHER THAN CHASE THE MODEL THAT LEADS TO ORGANIZATIONAL FAILURE?

There is still good drum corps to be made, appreciated, enjoyed and celebrated EVEN IN THE LIMITED TOUR MODEL!

DCA , like Academy, like Pacific Crest, isn't anything more than PROOF that GOOD DRUM CORPS can still be made without breaking the backs of the members or the bank of the organization.

Keep on arguing. Keep on splitting hairs. Keep on backbiting and insulting MEMBERS OF YOUR OWN COMMUNITY. Keep your eye OFF the ball. Don't change a thing. And, tommorrow, when Blue Stars or Mandarins or PHANTOM REGIMENT follows Southwind and Cascades off the cliff, ask if we are better for it.

Keep raising the bar on cost. Keep raising the bar on equipment. Keep raising the bar on the "contest" at the expense of the organization. And tell me we are better off.

How many shows were there in Florida last year? How many DCI shows were there in Canada? How many are there this year in the Pacific Northwest?

When we pare the thing down to 10 Super Corps, that might be great as a "fan experience"...like the Super Bowl of Marching Music....and I'd pay to see it. But what about the opportunity to actually DO IT?

Edited March 6, 2008 by wishbonecav

[EndzoneEric]

Yet they were the target of criticism? Pressured by the "powers that be" to go for broke on the "whole tour"?

Is that a fact? I've heard it from a bunch of guys drinking cold ones in the parking lot, but is it an established fact that the "powers that be" have openly criticized them for not doing the "full tour?"

[KeithHall]

Your light is very dim!

Why the attack?...you all brought this discussion to the DCI forum. I'm just helping shed some light on the topic.

Why do I need to do research? I'm not the one arguing that DCA is filling some mystical void.

Numbers were presented and I accurately gleaned interesting information from them and also asked a few pertinent questions.

If you don't like the heat, my friend...go back to the other forum. No one is forcing you to read this thread.

[Martybucs]

It is a tough nut to crack. While wild horses could drag my wife to a DCI show, even they would not be able to drag her to a DCA show. Her memory is of slobby, cursing, crotch-scratching, stained underwear, beer-drinking, cigarette smoking people wandering around the parking lot and changing into their unis in public....the last senior show she attended was probably around 1977 or 78. That day was a pretty horrific sight, to be sure, but no matter how much I tell her it's waaaaaay different, she is just not interested....as drum corps falls somewhere near the bottom of her list of things to do in general.

You've made this point a couple of times or more and frankly, I find it insulting. Why?

In the time frame you mention, I was on the field and yes, there were times I had to get dressed in a parking lot, but I did it as discreetly as possible. I'm a big guy, but if the lot was crowded, I squeezed into my pants in the front seat of my car. It beat trying to use the hot, overcrowded, showers and gyms that were occasionally provided. Drinking before a show was strictly prohibited and we just didn't do it because we know we needed to be sharp to perform.

If what you say is your wife's only impression of DCA, from what must have been only a few of the hundreds and hundreds of performers that evening, then I would have to disagree with her prejudicial view.

As you know, both our wives are nurses. My wife practices in PA, but also has a New Jersey license to care for some of the kids that use CHoP that live in NJ. We have been to Nursing Association functions, together, in PA and NJ. At a function in Philadelphia only a few months ago, there was a nice dinner at a fancy place downtown, a nice, albeit boring, for me, presentation and some awards. Afterwards, some people stayed and socialized at the bar. A nice evening.

About 5 years ago, we went to a similar function across the bridge in NJ for a nurse's association that my wife does not belong to, but was invited as a guest since she practices in NJ. It was a dreadful catered chicken something dinner, everyone smoked and I mean it seemed like everyone, by the end of the function there were several tipsy attendees, that continued their revelrie into the bar. They were loud, obnoxious, drunk and did I mention, they smoked? I couldn't wait to leave and these were professional people!

Should that one impression be my basis for judgement of New Jersey nurses; that they're hard drinking, noisy, smoking, uncouth party animals, that probably carry on their profession in the same manner?

No, that would be insulting to all nurses, not just NJ nurses and I would be wrong in that assumption. Last year we went to a dinner and awards presentation for the same assoc. Well, the food was still pretty bad and way too many people were still smoking for my taste, but no one got loud or drunk. We did go to the bar afterwards and had some wonderful conversation with some of my wife's colleagues. All in all, it was a nice evening.

If I had kept my previous impression in mind, one would expect that I shouldn't want to go ever again, but I knew, on that one occasion 5 years ago, it was the unfortunate display of a few individuals and maybe not even their typical behavior either.

My apologies to everyone for going on in such a long manner on something that is off topic, but MikeD, I'm sorry you're wife had a bad experience and even more sorry that she feels that she has to hold it against all of DCA...forever.

She doesn't want to see a show? Fine. But don't paint all of us with the same brush, loaded with such an unattractive color. Please. Yes, I'm offended by her attitude or at least your portrayal of it. And I'm sure that goes double or triple for these times.

Edited March 6, 2008 by Martybucs