How to encourage the development of Open Class Corps

[Shadow_7]

I guess we could get back on topic. The main reasons for some corps remaining small is that they just don't have the equipment and financial means to field an open class corps. And no amount of rule changes are gonna change that. Last year, my personal gear accounted for 50% of my corps performance gear. This year only about 30% of the hornlines gear. Anyway to stay on topic, YOU want them bigger, give them the equipment to be bigger. I miss the old days when corps owned all of their equipment and the members burden for equipment consisted of paying for shoes and gloves ONLY. These days the member has to buy shoes, gloves, uniform, plus whatever instrument(s) they're gonna play. And pay dues. At least for the smaller startup corps that own nothing and have no income outside of member contributions.

Now I'm not really asking for DCA to give away equipment. But perhaps it could organize something akin to buying an entire set of horns at the usual corps discounts/deals. And breaking up the set so the smaller corps can benefit from said discounts and only buy what they need and can afford. Something akin to a group buy that you might have seen on an audiophile forum. In Texas, we are devoid of Contras. All of the local marching bands use Sousaphones. Most people here have never even seen a marching Tuba, outside of mine at Tuba Christmas. Now if my corps bought contras at retail prices of about $12K a pop, we'd probably not make it to DCA for the next 5 decades. Not that $8K bus costs per single weekend mini-tour in these parts are much help either.

[TomPeashey]

we belabor the point... starting a drum corps - especially in an area with little drum corps history - is tough business. The corps that have been going for 60 years are struggling fiinancially to keep up... Look at the storied history behind many of the corps and you will see why they succeed, but it's still HARD and often they skip a beat (Crusaders, Grenadiers, Skyliners, Sunrisers, Brigadiers etc all have had their ups and downs despite years of fund raising experience)...

That said... I do want to be sure that anyone reading this and considering All Aged (who do NOT know how it REALLY is) do not get the wrong impression from Shadow's posts. While all corps have their financial requirements which may include participating in fund raisers, they are generally very achievable and modest. (much less than junior corps touring fees for example) Almost ALL corps provide all equipment (yes, except shoes) at no cost to the player.

And Shadow, I've never heard of any corps paying more than $5800 for a contra... (might be slightly higher now as I haven't bought a contra in 3 years) If you know anyone who paid $12K, someone saw them coming and put on their hold up mask..

While I understand and commend the sacrifices made by members of new corps like Shadow's who purchase their own equipment etc. I just wanted everyone to know that is NOT the norm in the All Aged field.

[blueskysop]

I guess we could get back on topic. The main reasons for some corps remaining small is that they just don't have the equipment and financial means to field an open class corps. And no amount of rule changes are gonna change that. Last year, my personal gear accounted for 50% of my corps performance gear. This year only about 30% of the hornlines gear. Anyway to stay on topic, YOU want them bigger, give them the equipment to be bigger. I miss the old days when corps owned all of their equipment and the members burden for equipment consisted of paying for shoes and gloves ONLY. These days the member has to buy shoes, gloves, uniform, plus whatever instrument(s) they're gonna play. And pay dues. At least for the smaller startup corps that own nothing and have no income outside of member contributions.

Now I'm not really asking for DCA to give away equipment. But perhaps it could organize something akin to buying an entire set of horns at the usual corps discounts/deals. And breaking up the set so the smaller corps can benefit from said discounts and only buy what they need and can afford. Something akin to a group buy that you might have seen on an audiophile forum. In Texas, we are devoid of Contras. All of the local marching bands use Sousaphones. Most people here have never even seen a marching Tuba, outside of mine at Tuba Christmas. Now if my corps bought contras at retail prices of about $12K a pop, we'd probably not make it to DCA for the next 5 decades. Not that $8K bus costs per single weekend mini-tour in these parts are much help either.

Music City Legend, I am very proud to say, has formed a corps from the start with some very smart financial planning. The original group who were MCL in 2003-2004, did own or purchase their own horns. My husband purchased his contra that year, used and being sold by another corps, for around $4000, I believe. Each year after that, we budgeted money every year for equipment purchases. Each year we would pick up a few horns here and there when we found good G horns being sold by another corps. We are now in our 5th year, we own a full line of horns, battery equipment, and now a 30 ft. trailer. Our budget this year includes the purchase of pit equipment. All has been done without any financing, but with a lot of blood, sweat, and tears.

We, just like every other corps out there, struggle with fundraising. It's not easy at all. But, we are fortunate to have board members who devise a budget and we do our best to stick to it. I am very proud to be a part of this corps.

[Vagabond Skyliner]

we belabor the point... starting a drum corps - especially in an area with little drum corps history - is tough business. The corps that have been going for 60 years are struggling fiinancially to keep up... Look at the storied history behind many of the corps and you will see why they succeed, but it's still HARD and often they skip a beat (Crusaders, Grenadiers, Skyliners, Sunrisers, Brigadiers etc all have had their ups and downs despite years of fund raising experience)...

That said... I do want to be sure that anyone reading this and considering All Aged (who do NOT know how it REALLY is) do not get the wrong impression from Shadow's posts. While all corps have their financial requirements which may include participating in fund raisers, they are generally very achievable and modest. (much less than junior corps touring fees for example) Almost ALL corps provide all equipment (yes, except shoes) at no cost to the player.

And Shadow, I've never heard of any corps paying more than $5800 for a contra... (might be slightly higher now as I haven't bought a contra in 3 years) If you know anyone who paid $12K, someone saw them coming and put on their hold up mask..

While I understand and commend the sacrifices made by members of new corps like Shadow's who purchase their own equipment etc. I just wanted everyone to know that is NOT the norm in the All Aged field.

Also of Importance is the Growth of Class A. The Bigger and Better the Regions become. The less Expensive travel becomes. Corps like CorpsVets and Heat Wave had to travel up to the Midwest or the Northeast just to compete. Then as DCA South grew and started to have thir own contests it Helped cut "some" expenses. Same for DCA Centeral. The Renegades and SoCal have the Biggest problem. (at the mersey of DCI inhibiting growth out there). Soon DCA South West will be a reality. (Texas, and Kansas maybe Oklahoma and Denver) with Louisiana being able to be DCA-SW or DCA-S.

But, I also think that DCA-North East should do more to become like a Division of DCA. Granted they may be more powerfull due to the Size (number of Corps) and Quality of those members. Then the DCA Governing Body over ALL,

their many Division's and Region's.

With the rise of the Kilties getting better and better in Open Class, each year. perhaps soon giving Minn.Brass a run for the top Central spot in the Open Div. Then the Govies and Chops fighting it out in Class A. BUILDING is going on in Central goes on and on. Lakeshoremen, Cin. Tradition etc.

Who would have believed 10 years ago that ATLANTA would have TWO Corps. (CorpsVets in Open and Alliance in Class A)

With Nashville's Music City also in Open Div. , Derby City and Sun Devils being added. Soon maybe Johnson City Presidents, and Masquarade(Baton Rouge)

Who would have believed 10 years ago TEXAS would have at least 4 Corps in DCA at all. (Frontier, Gulf Coast, Austin and maybe another Next year)

GROW your REGION. That is the Key to everything.

Then it will not matter at all whether the Championships are in Rochester,NY or Madison,Wisc. or Atlanta,GA. The Best Corps that can make it will, for that ONCE a year Contest. Yet they will be able to Compete all summer in their REGION.

[drumlaw80]

the few fans that did brave the elements, as well as the judges deserve medals.

Absolutely.

[kansasDC]

And Shadow, I've never heard of any corps paying more than $5800 for a contra... (might be slightly higher now as I haven't bought a contra in 3 years) If you know anyone who paid $12K, someone saw them coming and put on their hold up mask..

Click the link below and page down to the August 2008 listing. One year old King tubas for $2990!!!!

http://www.bluestars.org/equip/index.php

[Shadow_7]

Regions do help. But when a single bus for a single weekend runs $8K-ish in some of the larger regions, it's difficult to ride with the big boys. $8K over 20 members is $400 per member. That's the cost per member for ONE show. With current equipment and financing, the only way we'll become an open class corps is to march 10 horns, 5 drums and 90 guard. Nothing wrong with that IMO, but somehow I don't think that's what DCA invisioned with some of their rules. Although according to the "rules", that's a legitimate Open Class corps (and potential champion).

[Jeff Ream]

Shadow,

first off, remember the 35 rule started because show sponsors requested it. And while it may not be from show sponsors in the emerging regions, up here where some people have been running shows for 40+ years, it will carry weight. As to the NE being it's own region, usually, if you look at scheduling, it's like it has 2 mini regions already, or as we used to call it pre expansion, DCA-E and DCA-W.

It's not cheap to start anything these days, that is understood by all, even corps with 60+years under their belts. But, it you try to do too much toof ast, you end up killing corps, like we've seen in DCI over the years.

if that's the alternative, give me slow and steady any day of the week. May we lose a corps or two? Sadly, maybe yes. But, as has been shown by MCL in this thread, and Renengades well documented growth since 1999, patience and planning can do a lot. So, while being patient may suck, it may be the BEST course. Looking for handouts and #####ing about everything under the sun isn't going to help.

[CallipygianKing]

And if it is what it is, why do you need to moan about it for 3 years?

People still talk about whatever year it was that finals was rained out. Sometime in the 80s, was it? I was in elementary school back then...

Besides, a lot of memories were made on that field with nothing to commemorate them... After spending an hour huddling in a bathroom after they yanked everyone off the field and then performing through some of the worst of the storm, it would've been nice to sit down afterwards with a beer and see just how the performance went. Not to mention that the videos we do have of that performance are a bit incomplete. Without that last performance on tape, everything we have is unfinished. Unpolished. Incomplete.

And don't get me started on missing out on the chance to entertain. Competition is neat and all, but to go off the field to a smiling, cheering crowd is what I go for.

So, yeah, for those of us who travelled all that distance and didn't get that one last happy, appreciative, cheering crowd or even a video or a few photos to commemorate the soggy mess due to us not being able to make it to the Sunday night performance, yes we will "moan about it for 3 years". Not because we like to moan, but because a little of our drum corps history and a little of our drum corps experience feels like it was taken by that storm, never to be return again.

[TomPeashey]

Bunny...

you guys are a perfect example of how it's supposed to work... Say hi to Hef for me...

Hopefully, the naysayer involved will listen to Brent Unger the way you guys did... He knows what to do and obviously the naysayer doesn't realize how great a drum corps leader they have... I prefer to listen to people like YOU who tell us how it CAN be done rather than people like the naysayer who tells us why it CAN NOT be done...

Religion has it's anti-Christ... we have the anti-recruiter... any dci graduate considering all aged who reads (and believes) his posts will give up and miss out on a lifetime of drum corps experiences and the "family" it brings with it...

At my age, I have - unfortunately - buried many of my drum corps friends as well as "normal" friends and family. Non drum corps people are always amazed at the number of dear friends and wonderful remembrances the drum corps friends have - trust me on this... it's a revelation... the magnitude of drum corps involvement gives additional and greater meaning to the lives the activity touches...

I so wish that our young CorpsVet friend and expert internet communicator - Jason - was still with us. He would know how to put this bitter naysayer in his proper place... people like Jason (despite his very short life) make this all worthwhile.