Bridging The Gap - Show Designers vs. The Fans

[Dennis Argul]

I am not saying spoon feed the audience to the point you are leading them to your own conclusion, but I think people tend to dislike things they don't understand. Nobody likes to feel stupid

Ok, fair enough. I gotcha.

Thanks for the input. It really does matter to me as an arranger what the audience is thinking/feeling when they hear what I have worked on. I hope by season's end everything will work itself out.

Thanks again.

[Martybucs]

A very wise man once told me that most drum corps people do NOT accept improvements in drum corps past the day they aged out. This adage is proven time and time again in here.

It's a shame since it alienates those folks who perform in the present in either DCI or DCA all age, leaving them asking "if it ain't drum corps, what am I doing?" The really unfortunate part is age-outs then don't age out - they retire.

I don't think your wise man is entirely correct. People tend not to accept CHANGES in drum corps past the day the aged out or decide to stop marching.

Changes vs. improvements is a huge difference and it depends on your viewpoint. If you change something too much, then it is no longer what it was originally and may be changed/improved, so much so, that it should be called something else, so as not to confuse it with the original.

Edited June 25, 2008 by Martybucs

[Jeff Zehner]

[kusankusho]

I don't think your wise man is entirely correct. People tend not to accept CHANGES in drum corps past the day the aged out or decide to stop marching.

Changes vs. improvements is a huge difference and it depends on your viewpoint. If you change something too much, then it is no longer what it was originally and may be changed/improved, so much so, that it should be called something else, so as not to confuse it with the original.

I know where you're going and I'm right there with you. If you guys thing show accessability is a problem in DCA, have you seen a DCI World class show in the last decade or so?

[MikeD]

I don't think your wise man is entirely correct. People tend not to accept CHANGES in drum corps past the day the aged out or decide to stop marching.

Changes vs. improvements is a huge difference and it depends on your viewpoint. If you change something too much, then it is no longer what it was originally and may be changed/improved, so much so, that it should be called something else, so as not to confuse it with the original.

Which someone could have said in just about any era of drum corps.

[Martybucs]

I know where you're going and I'm right there with you. If you guys thing show accessability is a problem in DCA, have you seen a DCI World class show in the last decade or so?

Well, to some it isn't drum and bugle corps and it really isn't. Does that make it bad? No.

I really like DCI and DCA shows, they are great and everyone involved is great.

No one seems to want to acknowledge that if you've been away from the activity for awhile and you thought you were going to see a drum and bugle corps, but instead saw a modern show, you may be disappointed.

I stopped marching on the field in 1981 and old guys would come up and say, "That two valve thing ain't no bugle". I'd reply, "You're right." So what?

Some people really object to the improvements, (here I use the word improvement), but the instrumentation never truly defined the activity. All kinds of instruments have been used through the years, but the general structure of the activity remained a military drill.

What has come to pass as improvements, (I say changes), in show design and marching and show selection is so far removed from what was drum and bugle corps that there is a valid argument that, it is no longer drum and bugle corps.

It is not being an old codger, a purist, or any other demeaning word you choose, to use to make that point.

If that insults you because you think it is truly drum and bugle corps, then you're being equally disagreeable in not understanding someone else's valid point of view.

I think most people, old school or not, enjoy the modern shows, accept them for what they are, and wish everyone that busts their behinds every week, all year, nothing but the best.

[Martybucs]

Which someone could have said in just about any era of drum corps.

To a varying degree, you're probably right. However, in an overall sense, once corps abandoned their military shows in the 1970s the changes or improvements made it more and more less drum corps like than any era that came before.

[LegalEagle50]

question regarding the part you bring up about military drills, time frames and "the modern era".

just going by the DCA circuit which i know best, Cabs were founded in 1946. the drills were essentially changing by 1976ish so 30 years after they began. essentially they had completed that change by the time i first picked up a flag & learned a drill *1981*. 1976/1981 ~ either way you are looking at over 30 years since the military drills were being done.

so if the general structure of the activity changed over 30 years ago, really is it still the general structure of what truly defined drum & bugle corps? 30+ years isn't just a couple of years ago it was like this. generations of members have NEVER ONCE learned a military drill. yet IMO definately completed in drum & bugle corps.

[Fran Haring]

I tend to like shows that I can "get" either way.... at face value without having to think too much, or by following and trying to understand the "theme" behind a show.

An example.... in 2006, I didn't recognize a single tune that Carolina Crown played, and I honest to God don't remember what the theme of their show was. But I loved the show because they performed it so well, with that big, full, aggressive "drum corps sound."

That same year (I think....might have been '05), I also had no idea what Southwind was playing.... but their visual program, in particular the alternating colors of their uniforms, helped me "get" their "Duality" theme. It wasn't my favorite show by any means, but I still enjoyed it.

Fran

Edited June 25, 2008 by Fran Haring

[Martybucs]

question regarding the part you bring up about military drills, time frames and "the modern era".

just going by the DCA circuit which i know best, Cabs were founded in 1946. the drills were essentially changing by 1976ish so 30 years after they began. essentially they had completed that change by the time i first picked up a flag & learned a drill *1981*. 1976/1981 ~ either way you are looking at over 30 years since the military drills were being done.

so if the general structure of the activity changed over 30 years ago, really is it still the general structure of what truly defined drum & bugle corps? 30+ years isn't just a couple of years ago it was like this. generations of members have NEVER ONCE learned a military drill. yet IMO definately completed in drum & bugle corps.

That's a good point Liz. Excellent, in fact, if everyone would just accept the shows and enjoy them for what they are then what you call them wouldn't matter.

I, personally, see no point in arguing old versus new, drum corps vs. band, or whatever.

However, there are still a lot of people that marched VFW/AL rules and all the bs that went with it and see that as drum and bugle corps. By the late sixties and early 70s drills and equipment were changing, but very slowly so it was not so apparent at the time.

Along the way, many purists threw up their hands at the changes and warned of the dangers of too much change - slippery slope and all that stuff.

Since, mostly they were changes in equipment, which was pretty bad at the time, but still fun to play none the less, no one complained too much.

The slippery slope guys turned out to be right. So be it.

That doesn't make anything done today bad or not drum corps, if you call it drum corps. I just understand those that say, to them, it isn't.

If I invite you over for some nice pizza and beer and you come over and I serve you a gluten free rice crust, with a non fat watery sauce, nonfat imitation cheese and non alcoholic beer you would go wtf? I'd say, "What?"

"This ain't pizza and this swill isn't beer!"

"Sure it is - it's improved."

Well, you would probably say "changed", not improved and wouldn't accept either as the real deal, but a vegan may love it.

Edited June 25, 2008 by Martybucs