wdlover Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 And the drill this year is not innovative. . .not even close. It is fast paced and very clean. But half of the ideas have been done in the last 7 years by the corps. I also enjoy that by "half of the ideas have been done in the last 7 years by the corps" essentially means oh they made a triangle. Oh they made a square. Gaines drill is very geometric so when he makes a shape (of which there aren't an endless number of) people think it's the same thing. I personally would rather see that then a bunch of squiggles that serve no purpose in regard to staging or visual effect. I actually think that's one of BD's stronger points of their visual program this year is they explore more visual options and it's effective. Next time you watch Cavaliers look at the brilliant transitions and INNOVATIVE level of integration applied though all sections in the corps. I can also watch most corps shows one time and get the idea. Cavaliers need to be watched 3 or 4 times just to begin to pick up everything going on in their show. That's innovation, and until corps other than Cavaliers, SCV, and BD start picking up on that, I'm going to have a hard time thinking anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAMystreaux Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I also enjoy that by "half of the ideas have been done in the last 7 years by the corps" essentially means oh they made a triangle. Oh they made a square. Gaines drill is very geometric so when he makes a shape (of which there aren't an endless number of) people think it's the same thing. I personally would rather see that then a bunch of squiggles that serve no purpose in regard to staging or visual effect. I actually think that's one of BD's stronger points of their visual program this year is they explore more visual options and it's effective. Next time you watch Cavaliers look at the brilliant transitions and INNOVATIVE level of integration applied though all sections in the corps. I can also watch most corps shows one time and get the idea. Cavaliers need to be watched 3 or 4 times just to begin to pick up everything going on in their show. That's innovation, and until corps other than Cavaliers, SCV, and BD start picking up on that, I'm going to have a hard time thinking anything else. Sorry, but geometric shapes are not at all what I was getting at. I will have to rewatch the fan network vid, but from my one viewing weeks ago I remember the rolling on the ground, the guard pass through the collapsing block into a front just off the top of my head. I know there are at least a good handful of other rehashed ideas. I am not saying the corps is not great, or that they won't win, but this show is not innovative in any way. It may have a winning formula the judges like, but that alone does not make innovation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayM Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 (edited) Sorry, but geometric shapes are not at all what I was getting at. I will have to rewatch the fan network vid, but from my one viewing weeks ago I remember the rolling on the ground, the guard pass through the collapsing block into a front just off the top of my head. I know there are at least a good handful of other rehashed ideas. I am not saying the corps is not great, or that they won't win, but this show is not innovative in any way. It may have a winning formula the judges like, but that alone does not make innovation. 1. Watch the most recent video. IMO, the Kalamazoo performance is miles ahead of the Madison performance, and that was just one week. Extrapolate from that one week the number of forthcoming design enhancements and performance improvements, and you might see why some people think the Cavaliers have a chance at placing pretty well this summer. 2. Not innovative in any way? When's the last time a corps has had a front ensemble in any way resemble that of this season's Cavalier pit (costuming and sound-wise)? When's the last time we had hornline members jumping over each other? When's the last time a corps has had thematic elements portrayed on their concert bass drum heads? When's the last time hornline pitch bends have been used to such great effect (if they've even been used)? Edited July 11, 2008 by Jayzer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 (edited) i haven't been on this in a while but had to laugh when someone referred to as the Cavaliers as the new New York Yankees....i'm not sure if you know anything about sports or baseball (which i know is a sport) and all do respect to the Cavaliers but the Devs are in another league as far sustaining excellence.. Cavaliers national championships since 1948 (VFW and DCI combined - does not include AL titles or post-DCI vets titles) 1957, '59, '61 (undefeated), '62, '63, '67, '92, '95, '00, '01, '02 (undefeated), '04, '06 Cavaliers Championship Season percentage since founding = 22% NY Yankees Championship Season percentage since founding - 25% Red Sox Championship Season percentage since founding - 6% === (Devils have an even better 32% overall championship percentage (12 titles in 37 years), but let's check back again in 2031 when they'll have an equal number of seasons under their belt as Green does this year. For comparison purposes, it might be worth noting that since 1985, BD's championship season winning percentage is 32% - identical to Cavaliers AND Cadets in the same time period. Edited July 11, 2008 by mobrien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilovefish Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Cavaliers national championships since 1948 (VFW and DCI combined - does not include AL titles or post-DCI vets titles)1957, '59, '61 (undefeated), '62, '63, '67, '92, '95, '00, '01, '02 (undefeated), '04, '06 Cavaliers Championship Season percentage since founding = 22% NY Yankees Championship Season percentage since founding - 25% Red Sox Championship Season percentage since founding - 6% === (Devils have an even better 32% overall championship percentage (12 titles in 37 years), but let's check back again in 2031 when they'll have an equal number of seasons under their belt as Green does this year. For comparison purposes, it might be worth noting that since 1985, BD's championship season winning percentage is 32% - identical to Cavaliers AND Cadets in the same time period. Let's see...you can take your national championships from VFW and keep them...they're great to have and I'm sure people appreciate it...I'm going by the DCI record books my friend...and if you fool yourself into thinking anything otherwise...that's your business...but to the average joe fan of DCI....Yankees and Blue Devils are in the same book...not even an comparison....cute stats though...they don't impress me at all and i'm sure to they average joe again...i'm sure they're appreciative but the Devs are in a class of their own....get to double digit DCI World Championships and then we'll have this discussion again :)...again cute stats though i'm sure somebody out there appreciates them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller30 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 [snip] (Devils have an even better 32% overall championship percentage (12 titles in 37 years), but let's check back again in 2031 when they'll have an equal number of seasons under their belt as Green does this year. For comparison purposes, it might be worth noting that since 1985, BD's championship season winning percentage is 32% - identical to Cavaliers AND Cadets in the same time period. Just curious as to why you are taking it from '85. Might as well take it from '82-'90 or '75-'95. What delineates '85 as a year worth starting from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Design Hound Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Just curious as to why you are taking it from '85. Might as well take it from '82-'90 or '75-'95. What delineates '85 as a year worth starting from? Because that's the year Back to the Future came out, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playshighthangod Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Let's see...you can take your national championships from VFW and keep them...they're great to have and I'm sure people appreciate it...I'm going by the DCI record books my friend...and if you fool yourself into thinking anything otherwise...that's your business...but to the average joe fan of DCI....Yankees and Blue Devils are in the same book...not even an comparison....cute stats though...they don't impress me at all and i'm sure to they average joe again...i'm sure they're appreciative but the Devs are in a class of their own....get to double digit DCI World Championships and then we'll have this discussion again :)...again cute stats though i'm sure somebody out there appreciates them ^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^ Lets remember that Drum Corps created DCI...... there is no reason to discount the VFW titles against the Cavaliers!!! "Cute" way to defend yourself, but you cant disregard mobrien's statement by responding with "get to double digit DCI World Championships and then we'll have this discussion again". TOO BAD ALL THOSE TITLES WERE WON IN THE 1970'S AND 1990'S......ITs a shame how people Bash the Cavaliers all the time on here for simply ..... "FIGURING IT OUT!!!!" Remember..... Drum Corps Started DCI, not the other way around!!! and read alittle on WHO started DCI Real "cute" effort though!!! BTW... How many Titles have YOU won????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller30 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I am not at all condoning ilovefish's dismissive post, but this TOO BAD ALL THOSE TITLES WERE WON IN THE 1970'S AND 1990'S..... feels like you are striking out a little bit in about the same way maybe. Don't forget about the '80s… and a couple this decade too. Both of these corps had some dark years, right? BTW... How many Titles have YOU won????? Real "cute" effort though!!! Oh hell, its mid July, more and more people on tour are usually looking cute by this point in time… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Design Hound Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Oh hell, its mid July, more and more people on tour are usually looking cute by this point in time… Goooo tour goggles! Or did you mean because they're slimming down... hmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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