Serving alcohol at DCI shows

[kusankusho]

Is food necessary? Do they need to sell anything to drink--after all, it's annoying when people have to get up to go to the bathroom. Necessity is not a good question to ask when talking about something like this; there's very little involved in the entire drum corps process that's truly "necessary." Of course alcohol is not necessary, but it's nice to have around sometimes.

For human survival, food and water are necessary. Alcohol is not. While I'm sure a few people in the stands could actually benefit from skipping a meal, you can't seriously equate the need for food and water with the apparant facination with beer.

[Dave]

For human survival, food and water are necessary. Alcohol is not. While I'm sure a few people in the stands could actually benefit from skipping a meal, you can't seriously equate the need for food and water with the apparant facination with beer.

But what I mean is, is it necessary for those things to be served at a drum corps show? No one's going to die if they don't eat or drink for two hours, just like no one's going to die if they don't have a beer. My point is that necessity is not a good reason for or against serving alcohol or anything else.

[cowtown]

For human survival, food and water are necessary. Alcohol is not.

Well maybe not any more, here at least

But have you every read about the diets of merry old England? Beer was often the only source of clean liquids – sure the beer had a lower proof than today, but you can find reports of what children’s beer rations were for various meals from way back when…and when I’m out in nowheresville third world, like Laos or something, I drink more beer because often its cheaper and more trusted than the ‘clean’ water they sell

Also recently talked to a doctor that had a patient check in that claimed to get up at night every 4 hours to drink a beer to avoid the DTs – Doc didn’t believe him until he saw him the next morning in full on DTs ....so

any way, to the OP, I enjoy a beer or 2 at a show

[MikeN]

I don't think it's appropriate to serve alcohol at an event put on by a youth non-profit for the education of minors. I just don't see it.

<shrug> Just my opinion, though.

Mike

[kusankusho]

Well maybe not any more, here at least

But have you every read about the diets of merry old England? Beer was often the only source of clean liquids – sure the beer had a lower proof than today, but you can find reports of what children’s beer rations were for various meals from way back when…and when I’m out in nowheresville third world, like Laos or something, I drink more beer because often its cheaper and more trusted than the ‘clean’ water they sell

Hey man I'm from England and wrote a book about medieval England so you are 100% right about the beer back then. People actually distrusted water as being unhealthy. We're supposed to be smarter now (never a guarantee of that though!)

Personally, when I travel I only drink bottled water from sources I recognize (Evian for example, even if it is “naïve” spelled backwards….)

Edited July 16, 2008 by kusankusho

[MN DCI Fan]

Humidity, sweaty fans and hot beer is a very bad combination

You're not drinking it fast enough!

EDIT: You know, I think I may be coming across here like a raving alcoholic with my pithy comments. I assure you I'm not. I enjoy a beer or two occasionally (a mixed drink on rare occasions), but I generally drink much less than most people I know. I am not opposed to alcohol being served at DCI events, however. Never thought that would put me in the "pro-alcohol crowd," as I believe someone titled us earlier in the thread.

Edited July 16, 2008 by MN DCI Fan

[OrlandoContraAlum]

I don't think it's appropriate to serve alcohol at an event put on by a youth non-profit for the education of minors. I just don't see it.

<shrug> Just my opinion, though.

Mike

While I understand your point, I disagree with the logic. The whole youth non-profit is accurate. However, the EVENT itself is not only for the performers, but for the fans as well. Also, it is not always put on by non-profits, is it? Are all show sponsors non-profits, or youth activities? Also, I know that there are other groups that benefit from a cut of the sales, and with the prices on beer at stadiums, I would assume that means a fair chunk of change for those groups. Of course, I could be wrong about that.

Also, while I am sure there are minors on the field, I would venture to guess that a majority of the performers are in fact at least 18. Further, THEY should not be drinking (obviously)

I have been to 5 finals as a fan, 4 in Orlando and 1 in Foxboro. Beer was available at all events, and I bought a couple. I do know that for most other shows in smaller venues, there is no beer available, usually.

I enjoy beer at these events and others (sports, concerts, etc.) Do I need it? No. Is it necessary? Again, no. Would I not go if they did not have it available? Yet again, no. HOWEVER, for me, personally, it is something that is part of the event, so I prefer to have it available. What I would absolutely have a problem with is if the actions of a few dictated that I could no longer have this as part of my event. In a crowd of 20,000, it makes no sense to punish the majority of folks who would enjoy a beer with their corps for the actions (or possibility of actions) of a few who can't control themselves.

As to the poster who mentioned someone getting tanked and then getting killed or killing someone on the way home, that's silly. People can drink just about anywhere and then drive. One concession (no pun intended) that I will make is that it is harder for a worker at a corps show to determine if the person buying alcohol has had too much, and there may be a liability issue in there somewhere. I know that many bars, restaurants and such have specific training on monitoring customer's consumption and how to handle cutting someone off, etc. in order to reduce liability, and you simply don't have that in a concession stand environment. But again, if someone crashes on the way home from finals, how can anyone be sure that the individual didn't bring his own and tailgate or get drunk off of $7 stadium beers?

Wow... that was a long, disjointed post. Sorry 'bout that. I guess my overall point is that in non-school venues, I don't have a problem with alcohol sales and enjoy tipping one or two back. I would probably be upset with a blanket ban on sales, but would also understand. So how's that for a fence-sitting position?

[kyushujet]

I don't think it's appropriate to serve alcohol at an event put on by a youth non-profit for the education of minors. I just don't see it.

<shrug> Just my opinion, though.

Mike

I think that's what I was going for Mike in a nutshell. Thanks for crystalizing my thoughts.

It's like if beer was sold at my daughter's ballet recital (if I had a daughter) and the venue just happen to be at Mile High or Foxboro. I think that's what the pro-beer crowd is saying. It's not the event that we're seeing, it's the venue.

Or if that's not the reasoning for beer, then it's the freedom/liberties to purchase beer. Why punish everyone with a ban on alcohol sales at DCI events for the possible actions of a few misfits?

So, with that logic, let's say I have a permit to carry a gun. In this country I have the freedom to do so and I really enjoy having my gun with me at all times. And let's say there are a thousand others like me and we all happen to be DCI fans. And to cover all my bases, let's say gun manufacturers had an interest in drum corps (for whatever reason) and they were big sponsors of DCI events.

Are you ok with a stand full of law-abiding, gun-toting, DCI fans sitting next to you? AND drinking beers no less??

Ok, perhaps that's apples and oranges, but the point goes back to what Mike said, Is it appropriate? Perhaps my use of the word, "necessary" was off.

And if you argue, "What do gun manufacturers have to do with drum corps?" I can ask the same question with "What does Budweiser/Miller/Coors/Shiner have to do with drum corps?"

And if it's the venue arguement, again, refer back to my ballet recital example.

BTW, there's a BBQ place in Frisco (town next to me) that doesn't have a liquor license and when you buy the food, you get the beer FOR FREE. As much as you want. And they have Shiner on tap! And this little secret has been going on for years. So, I'm not a teetotaller. I like a beer as much as the next guy.

Ok, flame away.

[Liam]

I think that's what I was going for Mike in a nutshell. Thanks for crystalizing my thoughts.

It's like if beer was sold at my daughter's ballet recital (if I had a daughter) and the venue just happen to be at Mile High or Foxboro. I think that's what the pro-beer crowd is saying. It's not the event that we're seeing, it's the venue.

Well, if your daughter's dance recital attracted a crowd large enough to fill Mile High Stadium, well then it's likely crossed over into some sort of mainstream appeal that takes it well past the "parents and family" crowd and more into the same kind of discussion we're having here or with other large events.

Here's my take on all this: If DCI wanted to ban alcohol sales at their events, they certainly have the right to do that and it wouldn't keep me away by any means. Thing is, though, the beer sales do follow the venue and not the event (professional stadium vs high school, for example). So if DCI wants to book these large professional facilities, the cost structure is dependant on all the amenities. For example, DCI could demand in their contract with Indy that parking will be free for DCI fans. Indy might go along with this, but they are going to adjust the stadium lease fee to compensate as the venue would otherwise be keeping that parking money. So DCI will likely raise the ticket price to adjust. So we're still paying to parking one way or the other, it's just maybe divided up a little differently. Same goes for concessions and beer sales. The venue is going to estimate how much they will make on parking, concessions, beer sales, etc and use that to price the lease. So we can ban beer if we want, but don't be surprised if it costs us $ in return.

Maybe that's okay. Maybe our argument is that beer isn't appropriate for a "youth" activity such as DCI, so we're willing to pay (literally) the consequences. Here's where it comes back to a behavior argument. The vast majority of beer/alcohol drinkers do so responsibly -- whether it's at home, a bar, a sporting event, or DCI. Some do not and behave poorly. Honestly, the same can be said of non-drinkers, as well. My personal experience is that I have found the most boorish and embarrising behavior at DCI shows to be from non-drinkers and I notice this while calmly and responsibly downing a few myself. DCI is a private organization, so they can put whatever restrictions of alcohol consumption they want. But if we really want to take this path, I would prefer that DCI instead crack down on bad behavior, whether alcohol induced or not, and see where that takes us before reflexively banning an otherwise money-making, enjoyable product from fans on vacation and/or otherwise having a good time enjoying the show.

Edited July 16, 2008 by Liam

[Frank Mulvaney]

Oh, for the good ole days when you could bring in coolers of your fav beverage.The moron brigade,of course, abused the priviledge and ruined it for the rest of us.I know that alcohol was served in Denver,because they card every one ,even 60 year old coots like me.BTW Mile High gets my vote for the best major sport stadium grub in the country .I've been two dozen of them.

Frank