I first said it in 2000 on RAMD,

[The Other Mike]

And how soon after your RAMD post did Catherine call you a "Bando"?

Well, isn't this an interesting co-inky-dink. ( NOT)

BLANDO

< $1 to she who will not be mentioned by name>

I think it took awhile, she was busy with "EVERYONE" , EBBUB, collecting enough puppies for a dalmation kilt and preparing the new display at the Wisconson musem of pretzel horns and cheese. Of course he may, or may not have been the intended audiance.

:troll food:

[Widge]

You DO realize that every hit in their 2008 show is in the key of B-flat, right?

And you DO realize that Bluecoats have hits in f minor (opening sequence), g minor (shout), Eb 7 (end of opener), e-minor (park n blow in round 3), a minor/d minor (2/3 of closer), with a final chord of the show in C Major (gotta be a drum corps first). ROund 4 is basic Bb as is end of round three. THat's IT.

I haven't heard anyone other than Bloo, Crown and Cadets. (I can't discern anything with Cadets, but that's for another day.)

I'm not saying Bloo's achieving anything, but before you "crown" a new champion, understand that Carolina Crown is going to have to start doing more-difficult things.

Crown has all of the inertia right now. I was at the Orlando show. It was my dad's first drum corps experience. He had Crown first, Bloo 2nd and Cadets 3rd...he knows NOTHING about music/drum corps! I had Crown first, Cadets 2nd and Bloo 3rd, but I quipped to my dad "But that's only if the judges think Crown has enough inertia this year!" They did THAT night.

IF the judges care to discern levels of musical ensemble difficulty (not usually, fwiw), Crown won't last.

Recall that your predication, combined with Competitive Inertia, means that Crow will have to come in 3rd or 2nd either this year or next. It WILL NOT be this year. (should not, anyway, no matter how much they "achieve," since the music is so simple)

Now, as a FAN(atic) of drum corps I HOPE YOU"RE RIGHT!!!!! Man, we need new blood in the Top 3 BIG TIME.

But Crown has kept things simple (and clean and entertaining)...very good baby steps. They're gunna have to bring a whole new music book to be considered elite, however.

So...when does what key you play in mean there is no difficulty?? As a teacher , I can teach nearly anyone to play the right notes. But to play them with that technique, tone quality , and power. while in tune. that's musicianship.

To say that the 2008 crown show is keeping it simple, is absurd.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Widge

[Melissa Sampson]

See, here's where I disagree. I am not sold on the show design. In fact, it smacks of..."Well, we could do something new and inventive...or...what about doing a greatest hits from other corps?"

I think the overall show concept maybe the only thing keeping them out of top 3 this year.

Wow...now that's a controverial statement. But, hey. I stand by it.

Funny that you should bring that up. At the beginning of the year, when they announced their show selections, I was like WHAT?

I thought the selections seemed cheesy, and the combination of those together were going to be horrible. I had my mind made up I was probably not going to like this show, after having loved them so much last year.

And then I saw the show.

WOW!!!!!

So while I would have never chosen those pieces together, what Crown has done with them is nothing short of amazing. Great musical book, great drill, amazing guardwork. I think this show is definitely top 3 level this year. And while I don't see them beating Cavies or BD this season, I think this show can definitely compete with anyone else in the 3-7 bracket. And if they continue on the path they are currently on, I can definitely see them contending for a championship in the next few years.

[KnightOfNi222]

You DO realize that every hit in their 2008 show is in the key of B-flat, right? EDIT:{...and end is in Eb...}

And you DO realize that Bluecoats have hits in f minor (opening sequence), g minor (shout), Eb 7 (end of opener), e-minor (park n blow in round 3), a minor/d minor (2/3 of closer), with a final chord of the show in C Major (gotta be a drum corps first). ROund 4 is basic Bb as is end of round three. THat's IT.

I haven't heard anyone other than Bloo, Crown and Cadets. (I can't discern anything with Cadets, but that's for another day.)

I'm not saying Bloo's achieving anything, but before you "crown" a new champion, understand that Carolina Crown is going to have to start doing more-difficult things.

Crown has all of the inertia right now. I was at the Orlando show. It was my dad's first drum corps experience. He had Crown first, Bloo 2nd and Cadets 3rd...he knows NOTHING about music/drum corps! I had Crown first, Cadets 2nd and Bloo 3rd, but I quipped to my dad "But that's only if the judges think Crown has enough inertia this year!" They did THAT night.

IF the judges care to discern levels of musical ensemble difficulty (not usually, fwiw), Crown won't last.

Recall that your predication, combined with Competitive Inertia, means that Crow will have to come in 3rd or 2nd either this year or next. It WILL NOT be this year. (should not, anyway, no matter how much they "achieve," since the music is so simple)

Now, as a FAN(atic) of drum corps I HOPE YOU"RE RIGHT!!!!! Man, we need new blood in the Top 3 BIG TIME.

But Crown has kept things simple (and clean and entertaining)...very good baby steps. They're gunna have to bring a whole new music book to be considered elite, however.

I understand that the 'Coats are using more intricate harmonic structures, but I don't think it's fair to say that Crown has an easy horn book. Easy to tune on a Bb harmonic series horn no doubt, but they're playing some notes. Candide is pretty crazy at the beginning with those woodwind/string-esque licks in the high brass and 1812 isn't exactly a piece of cake for the trumpets either. The technique demands of their music IMO negate the fact that their hits are all in Bb or Eb. I could be wrong (and it might be intersting to look into), but I'd imagine that most final hits of tunes end up one of the easier chords to put in tune on a particular keyed instrument (for Bb horns probably Bb, F, Eb or C chords), and those of you with experience with the old G horns would probably agree that final hits would end on comparable chords for G horns.

Just my 2 cents either way I'm looking forward to catching Crowns rehearsals in Memphis next week while I work some camps and I'm looking forward to Murfreesboro. It's time for some new blood cracking the top 5 (and hopefully the top 3)

[corpsband]

IF the judges care to discern levels of musical ensemble difficulty (not usually, fwiw), Crown won't last.......But Crown has kept things simple (and clean and entertaining)...very good baby steps. They're gunna have to bring a whole new music book to be considered elite, however.

<disclaimer>I have not seen Crown live yet this year</disclaimer>BUT there is no way in the world I'd call their musical book easy or simple. I would agree its sounds like its getting pretty clean In fact the one thing I've enjoyed most about Crown lately has been their members' understanding of ensemble sound. I think it's their core strength. Sit in their horn arc and maybe you'll change your mind. They're simply a very good brass ensemble.

[LAMystreaux]

You DO realize that every hit in their 2008 show is in the key of B-flat, right? EDIT:{...and end is in Eb...}

And you DO realize that Bluecoats have hits in f minor (opening sequence), g minor (shout), Eb 7 (end of opener), e-minor (park n blow in round 3), a minor/d minor (2/3 of closer), with a final chord of the show in C Major (gotta be a drum corps first). ROund 4 is basic Bb as is end of round three. THat's IT.

I haven't heard anyone other than Bloo, Crown and Cadets. (I can't discern anything with Cadets, but that's for another day.)

I'm not saying Bloo's achieving anything, but before you "crown" a new champion, understand that Carolina Crown is going to have to start doing more-difficult things.

Crown has all of the inertia right now. I was at the Orlando show. It was my dad's first drum corps experience. He had Crown first, Bloo 2nd and Cadets 3rd...he knows NOTHING about music/drum corps! I had Crown first, Cadets 2nd and Bloo 3rd, but I quipped to my dad "But that's only if the judges think Crown has enough inertia this year!" They did THAT night.

IF the judges care to discern levels of musical ensemble difficulty (not usually, fwiw), Crown won't last.

Recall that your predication, combined with Competitive Inertia, means that Crow will have to come in 3rd or 2nd either this year or next. It WILL NOT be this year. (should not, anyway, no matter how much they "achieve," since the music is so simple)

Now, as a FAN(atic) of drum corps I HOPE YOU"RE RIGHT!!!!! Man, we need new blood in the Top 3 BIG TIME.

But Crown has kept things simple (and clean and entertaining)...very good baby steps. They're gunna have to bring a whole new music book to be considered elite, however.

I don't think the key f a book has that much to do with difficulty. Spend a few days working on some scales or in a key and voila. But the technique needed to pull off those classical masterpieces they are performing is an entirely different monster. Also, their ballad (last year and this one) has a ton of exposure. No percussion to cover up any potentially bad sounds. Just that beautiful hornline playing gorgeous sounds.

Their show is one of the most difficult on the field this summer, IMO.

[Harmonious Cacophony]

Michael Klesch is a smart guy. Klesch knows what works and what doesn't on the field, and orchestrates accordingly. This year, the hornline book seems to have more simultaneous moving parts than usual and the overall demand for the hornline seems to be the highest yet (for Crown). In order to tie the separate chunks of the show together into one piece, Klesh arranged most of the show in the same key. I think it works. I certainly find Finis pleasing and entertaining to listen to, and that matters most to me.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Harmonious Cacophony

[salad315]

You DO realize that every hit in their 2008 show is in the key of B-flat, right? EDIT:{...and end is in Eb...}

And you DO realize that Bluecoats have hits in f minor (opening sequence), g minor (shout), Eb 7 (end of opener), e-minor (park n blow in round 3), a minor/d minor (2/3 of closer), with a final chord of the show in C Major (gotta be a drum corps first). ROund 4 is basic Bb as is end of round three. THat's IT.

I haven't heard anyone other than Bloo, Crown and Cadets. (I can't discern anything with Cadets, but that's for another day.)

I'm not saying Bloo's achieving anything, but before you "crown" a new champion, understand that Carolina Crown is going to have to start doing more-difficult things.

Crown has all of the inertia right now. I was at the Orlando show. It was my dad's first drum corps experience. He had Crown first, Bloo 2nd and Cadets 3rd...he knows NOTHING about music/drum corps! I had Crown first, Cadets 2nd and Bloo 3rd, but I quipped to my dad "But that's only if the judges think Crown has enough inertia this year!" They did THAT night.

IF the judges care to discern levels of musical ensemble difficulty (not usually, fwiw), Crown won't last.

Recall that your predication, combined with Competitive Inertia, means that Crow will have to come in 3rd or 2nd either this year or next. It WILL NOT be this year. (should not, anyway, no matter how much they "achieve," since the music is so simple)

Now, as a FAN(atic) of drum corps I HOPE YOU"RE RIGHT!!!!! Man, we need new blood in the Top 3 BIG TIME.

But Crown has kept things simple (and clean and entertaining)...very good baby steps. They're gunna have to bring a whole new music book to be considered elite, however.

Wow...with regard to your first point, its something that I've noticed for a while, but never felt like calling out, because I knew it be received the same way as calling out the cavaliers for their brass book. Some would just refer to it as 'smart arranging', or whatever. I understand that the average fan cant tell a Bb major chord from a C or D major chord, but I do believe that it should be at least a factor in the judging process. Contrary to what others have said, playing in a stange key is NOT as easy as practicing a few scales, especially when trying to play at extreme volume levels where the pitch tendancies are extremely unfriendly to fitting into chords. This is coming from someone who ended pieces in the key of D major, played impacts in E minor and C major, and had one piece that actually ended on an E major chord (whats that...like 12 sharps for the trumpets???). I am aware this may come off sounding snobbish to some, but it is at least SOMETHING to think about with regard to maturity of playing, though by no means is it the most important factor in deciding it.

*if you want to flame me, take a sec and read that last sentence again*

[LAMystreaux]

Wow...with regard to your first point, its something that I've noticed for a while, but never felt like calling out, because I knew it be received the same way as calling out the cavaliers for their brass book. Some would just refer to it as 'smart arranging', or whatever. I understand that the average fan cant tell a Bb major chord from a C or D major chord, but I do believe that it should be at least a factor in the judging process. Contrary to what others have said, playing in a stange key is NOT as easy as practicing a few scales, especially when trying to play at extreme volume levels where the pitch tendancies are extremely unfriendly to fitting into chords. This is coming from someone who ended pieces in the key of D major, played impacts in E minor and C major, and had one piece that actually ended on an E major chord (whats that...like 12 sharps for the trumpets???). I am aware this may come off sounding snobbish to some, but it is at least SOMETHING to think about with regard to maturity of playing, though by no means is it the most important factor in deciding it.

*if you want to flame me, take a sec and read that last sentence again*

Consideration, sure. High consideration, I don't think so. Their book, in any key, would be really tough.

[Lance]

Eh, if it were for sight reading, key might make a difference, but not for shows where they play the same music this much.