NR_Ohiobando Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 A couple questions... I decided to take advantage of the Fan Network and watch a bunch of legacy shows I had not seen yet. I got to the 1986 Garfield Cadets show and......... #1) HOLY #### THAT'S A BIG HORNLINE! * - Did they actually make guard members learn how to play for that, or was it just a "prop"? I would assume they made them play. * - How did the guard feel about it?(and being cut down in #'s). * - I would assume this was just another of George's crazy ideas , but was it due to guard member shortage? #2) HOLY #### DID THAT TUBA/CONTRA JUST PLAY THAT NOTE?(or was it actually someone else...?) No. Seriously. HOLY #### MOTHER OF JESUS BUTT ####### CHRIST ####!?!?! I mean, I know it's possible, but even so...my head nearly exploded while trying to process what had just happened...and even if it really happened. Ears hear squealing/screaming brass. Eyes see Contra. Brain assumes mello or trumpet made the sou-.....................wait.....WTF ... also, pardon the language...but that's literally what I said. Profanity usually takes place when no words can describe what happened Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84BDsop Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 A couple questions...I decided to take advantage of the Fan Network and watch a bunch of legacy shows I had not seen yet. I got to the 1986 Garfield Cadets show and......... #1) HOLY #### THAT'S A BIG HORNLINE! 85 brass, if I remember correctly. * - Did they actually make guard members learn how to play for that, or was it just a "prop"? I would assume they made them play. I BELIEVE they were actual brass players, not guard taught to play (at THAT level....from a 3 peat champ?? Not likely they'd go with inexperienced brass players....especially with THAY book) * - How did the guard feel about it?(and being cut down in #'s). One of the mellos who marched against me had a sister that was in teh 86 guard....and she said most of teh guard were NOT happy to see their numbers more than halved. #2) HOLY #### DID THAT TUBA/CONTRA JUST PLAY THAT NOTE?(or was it actually someone else...?) Nope....it WAS that contra.....on a much smaller mouthpiece (a bari or mello one?) It was a good show on it's own, if a bit disjointed.....but going up against the BD juggernaut, it had no chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdawg Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Answers: There were 84 horns (28 sopranos, 18 mellos, 26 baritones/euphoniums, 12 contras). The guard members were actually guard people. All were supposed to play but I think only a few of them really did. During first half of the tour, twelve of the sopranos spun flag in the opener and there were 5 or six horns that were flags at the end of the show. Unfortunately that got changed to what you saw on the video. The original concept was to have 128 "cadets" that were interchangeable as musicians or visual people. Unfortunately, the staff failed to think through the necessary learning curve to make that work at a "top 5" level of competence. I know the Hoppy bashers will be shocked to know this, but my understanding was that the large hornline/small guard was Michael Cesario's debacle. The contra was played with a soprano mouthpiece by none other than Jeff Sacktig, Cadets's current drill designer. As for how the guard felt, they were not happy about it. It was a tough season for them. The boxing ring things were brutal. Was guard shortage an issue? Not really. There were a lot of ageouts in '85, so it was the "ideal" time to try such a thing. But there were enough girls that returned in '87 from the '85 guard and earlier seasons to have fielded a guard that was 50% vets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apoch003 Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 I, uh... have a confession... to make. I'm not a big fan of Garfield. I appreciate what they do...the precision, the musicality (of the 80's and before), the beauty of their shows. I just don't like the uniforms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaromas Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Answers: There were 84 horns (28 sopranos, 18 mellos, 26 baritones/euphoniums, 12 contras). The guard members were actually guard people. All were supposed to play but I think only a few of them really did. During first half of the tour, twelve of the sopranos spun flag in the opener and there were 5 or six horns that were flags at the end of the show. Unfortunately that got changed to what you saw on the video. The original concept was to have 128 "cadets" that were interchangeable as musicians or visual people. Unfortunately, the staff failed to think through the necessary learning curve to make that work at a "top 5" level of competence. I know the Hoppy bashers will be shocked to know this, but my understanding was that the large hornline/small guard was Michael Cesario's debacle. The contra was played with a soprano mouthpiece by none other than Jeff Sacktig, Cadets's current drill designer. As for how the guard felt, they were not happy about it. It was a tough season for them. The boxing ring things were brutal. Was guard shortage an issue? Not really. There were a lot of ageouts in '85, so it was the "ideal" time to try such a thing. But there were enough girls that returned in '87 from the '85 guard and earlier seasons to have fielded a guard that was 50% vets. All true. Underdawg, you marched that year? Side note: unfortunately fielding 84 horns also meant that there were a lot of "plugs", which meant not even all of the actual horn line played, much less the entire guard. That show could have been earth shattering if all 84 horns played all the time. I will also mention a common feeling within the corps that year, which was if the entire show was "On The Waterfront", with no Christopher Street, we might not have experienced "death by low GE" and maybe given Santa Clara a run for second place. (No one was touching Concord that year...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NR_Ohiobando Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 Answers: There were 84 horns (28 sopranos, 18 mellos, 26 baritones/euphoniums, 12 contras). That company front in the opener is what really caught my attention that this was unusually large. Thanks! The guard members were actually guard people. All were supposed to play but I think only a few of them really did. During first half of the tour, twelve of the sopranos spun flag in the opener and there were 5 or six horns that were flags at the end of the show. Unfortunately that got changed to what you saw on the video. The original concept was to have 128 "cadets" that were interchangeable as musicians or visual people. Unfortunately, the staff failed to think through the necessary learning curve to make that work at a "top 5" level of competence. Someone didn't think that one through I guess. Cool idea, but they get an "A" for effort. I know the Hoppy bashers will be shocked to know this, but my understanding was that the large hornline/small guard was Michael Cesario's debacle. I wonder how Hopkins felt about the program... The contra was played with a soprano mouthpiece by none other than Jeff Sacktig, Cadets's current drill designer. cool trivia, thanks! As for how the guard felt, they were not happy about it. It was a tough season for them. The boxing ring things were brutal. Was guard shortage an issue? Not really. There were a lot of ageouts in '85, so it was the "ideal" time to try such a thing. But there were enough girls that returned in '87 from the '85 guard and earlier seasons to have fielded a guard that was 50% vets. I would be kinda angry too if I was given that program as a colorguard member. But at least they bounced back the year afterward. Thanks for everyone's input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Bennett3rd Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I had the pleasure of seeing that 86 show about 10 times that year. I still think it's one of their better shows. I am NOT a Cadets fan, but I respect their willingness to TRY NEW STUFF.....EVEN IF IT DOESN'T WORK. They truly live by the addage " You cant make an omlet without breaking some eggs". If you haven't seen this show, WATCH IT. It may not stand up to 2008 standards, but remember it was 1986. They were GOING FOR IT!!!!! Takes a lot of guts to win 3 in a row, then TRY SOMETHING NEW!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medeabrass Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Unfortunately, the staff failed to think through the necessary learning curve to make that work at a "top 5" level of competence. If Donnie VanDoren were still there I bet they woulda' learned to play by finals ...on second thought, I bet he would've said it's brass players only in my line or I hit the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 (edited) 86 was my first season so it was my first impression of Garfield. They were still jawdropping whether all the brass played or not. That off axis weird box rotation that ended at a 3.575 degree angle ........ STUPID SWEET! I met one of the guard members in the airport at Madison after Finals. I know I won't spell her name right but it was Shuey (Shewi? sorry!) Her right shoulder was MASSIVE from pulling those straps around all summer. We talked at length and that was truly my BEST impression I had had of Garfield in my first year. I believe she had 11 years on the field with them at that point (memory is rusty). It was indeed 84 horns, it was indeed a sop mouthpiece on the Contra and it was indeed an incredible mellophone solo at the beginning of the show (but I heard they got stung on the lip by a bee the day of finals). The prelims show recording was incredible to listen to with that solo ... talk about filling up a stadium and it was only 1 person. The Backward Company Front in the closer was, as described by many as, Hoppy and Garfield turning their collective backs on DCI and the fan$. Not sure about that one but it makes sense if it was added during the season and not there from day one. I loved everything up until the closer.... I think we all did. Wasn't as clean as 83-85 but just as innovative and crazy as ever (TY Mr. Zingali R.I.P.) Edited August 2, 2008 by supersop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonnieg1906 Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 A couple questions...I decided to take advantage of the Fan Network and watch a bunch of legacy shows I had not seen yet. I got to the 1986 Garfield Cadets show and......... #1) HOLY #### THAT'S A BIG HORNLINE! * - Did they actually make guard members learn how to play for that, or was it just a "prop"? I would assume they made them play. * - How did the guard feel about it?(and being cut down in #'s). * - I would assume this was just another of George's crazy ideas , but was it due to guard member shortage? #2) HOLY #### DID THAT TUBA/CONTRA JUST PLAY THAT NOTE?(or was it actually someone else...?) No. Seriously. HOLY #### MOTHER OF JESUS BUTT ####### CHRIST ####!?!?! I mean, I know it's possible, but even so...my head nearly exploded while trying to process what had just happened...and even if it really happened. Ears hear squealing/screaming brass. Eyes see Contra. Brain assumes mello or trumpet made the sou-.....................wait.....WTF ... also, pardon the language...but that's literally what I said. Profanity usually takes place when no words can describe what happened Hello, I marched that year and I don't remember the guard playing horns. But I think they did use a soprano mouth p. on a contra for that high note. See, now you have me courious. lol Now I'm gonna break out my 86 finals tapes. Gotta check out some of the stuff that you are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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