It's Been A While....

[doyle079]

5). BAN ELECTRONICS!!

saw that one coming. so its like this guy just woke up from a coma and decided to not really read into anything he posted about...

what brass book has people playing quarter and half notes 75% of the time? and even if they do, the General Effect is still being achieved...

i know according to the scouts website they do have incentives for staying, its like $100 for each year and if you pay before dec 31, then you get even more off, just as an example. im sure other corps do it that. its just that at some point the vets will want to end their DCI career with a bang and they try for a corps that will get them that shiny piece of metal known as a championship ring. (why do i know this? because im 19 gonna be 20 in feb and have 2 years before age out, and i know i want to spend one of them with the scouts, but theres a thought in my mind that says "scouts will be awesome experience but may not have the best shot winning and winning that ring would be an awesome thing to do." but will just take it year by year.)

the whole thing about DCI and BOA being so close is because if you actually have been to a highschool marching band camp, rehersal, meeting, anything you will probably hear something along the lines of "were trying to immulate(sp?) what the DCI corps are doing.

the only 2 things i could agree with is the banning narration. even then i would only ban it the way cadets do it, no offense cadets, its just every year it seams more and more talking and less and less playing. but they way bluecoats have used it and crown last year should still be allowed

i also think DCI should have more shows in more states, im kind of mad that in 06 there were 2 in less than half hour from my house and 3 in less than 1.5 from my house. this year 08 the closest one to me was 2+hours away, normal ill. i'm sure theres a few highschools that would love to work a deal out with DCI to have a show at their school as a fundraiser. but this year alone ive gone to normal madison and san antonio. and i had no problem spending $50 for a top notch show in san antonio. if they really want to do something about the ticket prices, take away the F-ing fees, event fee, stadium fee, utility fee, ### scratching fee, fees for fees fee, just make the ticket $50 fees included, not $50 then when you hit checkout it suddenly turns into $60 becuase of fees.

if DCI does end up going under, which is highly doubtful, a new version will probably take its place very quickly, hell it might even be better.

[elliotdo]

Well, fellow DCP-ers, it has been over a year since I have posted, but rest assured I have been a regular reader, and truly appreciate mostly everyone's thoughts and passion for our activity.

It is with that in mind that I find myself punching up a post/topic tonight.

Where is our activity going from a "creative" standpoint? What will "DCI" look like in 2022 when my 16 month old son may choose to march his first year in a World Class corps? On one hand, and sadly, I am of the opinion that DCI will no longer exist unless some serious changes take place. Changes in the area of judging, the creative direction (if you want to call it that) of the activity, the business practices of DCI as an organization, and the ridiculous rule changes that the board of directors have been "brain-washed" into approving!!

I mentioned my 16 month old son. Guess what his favorite thing (video/DVD) is to watch? Give up?....... The 1980 27th Lancers!! Guess what his next favorite thing is to watch? Give up again?.... The 1993 Star of Indiana!!!! Goes to show you that "old school," and a show with some DEMAND in it are and SHOULD still be the norm in DCI rather than the exception!! Yes -- I'll say it again... Goes to show you that "old school," and a show with some DEMAND in it are and SHOULD still be the norm in DCI rather than the exception!!

Now before I go any further, many of you may remember that I am an avid advocate of bringing back a demand sub caption for at least the music captions.

I am at a loss as to why corps who play quarter notes and half notes for 75% of their show (brass books) are being rewarded with 18 plus points in the GE Music and performance captions. It's easy to clean easy brass (and drum) books, so what's the point? Why aren't some of these corps challenging the "students" as Jim Prime did with Star's 1993 (and 1991!) brass book, or Wayne Downey did with BD's 1994 and 1995 brass books??

Are the kids marching today any less talented than they were 15 to 20 plus years ago??

Now before the "hammerers" come after me in this forum, I am still a supporter of the activity. However if some of the current direction of the activity continues to go where I think it's going, then my money will be spent elsewhere, and my son will never set foot on a football field as a member of any corps!!

Now some questions and comments:

1). DCI -- why are you financially in dire straights?? (Rumor has it after this year you'll be $500,000 in the hole!) You were in a similar position before moving to Indianapolis, and are still paying rent for offices in Illinois where you moved from!! Might I suggest mandatory attendance at a Financial Peace University for all DCI staffers and the entire DCI Board of Directors!!

2). Fan attendance is down due to rising gas costs, but more importantly due to ticket prices that are unrealistic!! Again, someone needs to come up with a solution (I've suggested many over the years, so I will not belabor the point here).

3). Your current roster of judges includes many band directors, and they are the ones "nudging" the activity in the direction it has gone from a design standpoint the past 6 years. Although on the surface it may not appear that way, but take any novice fan and drop them in as an audience member at a BOA Superregional, and then at a DCI show and I got $1,000 bucks that says they will be hard-pressed to tell the difference!! The activity used to have a clear distinction between marching band and drum & bugle corps, but that isn;t the case any more! No -- I am not slamming the marching band activity, but the distinction I speak of used to be true!!

4). Why not be bold, and "nudge" the activity back into it's uniqueness? Pass a rule banning narration and props for a year ot two! Pass a rule stating that color guards have to actually do equipment work for at least 70% of the show time limit that a corps is on the field!!

5). BAN ELECTRONICS!!

6). Why aren't their "incentives" for marching members who say with a corps for 3 plus consecutive years?? The average length of time a young person marches with a corps has gone from 5.2 years in 1992 to 2.2 years in 2006. yes -- the cost of marching may have something to do with it, thus the suggestion on incentives!

In closing let me say that my intention to open up a preverbial "can of worms" by posting is on purpose and fully intentional!! Those of us who have loved, lived, and supported this activity for decades are witnessing the slow death of the activity whether we want to see it or not! It's high time that we make our voices heard so the "powers that be" quit acting like the U.S. Congress (doing very little or nothing) and start taking action!

Ok -- I am stepping off of my soapbox now. Thanks for listening (reading).

Vic, I truly appreciate your comments on this and I would like to comment back, not only to you, but to the folks at DCP in general. I am sure this stuff has been discussed before, but what the heck!

In some aspects, but not all, I have to agree with you here. While I believe that the DEMAND in music and drill is much more then when I marched back in the 70's and 80's (and even much more then my brother's time in the 60's), it is truly only "at times". With the pit as massive as they are today and now with mics and amps, there are many, many times when the pit is the only "music" happening - this in turn lets the corps proper run their butts off doing some very complicated drill. But it’s not the same as marching and playing 16th, 32nd notes, etc. Then when you have The Cadets, who have capitalized in the past 4 years with tons of narration on top of that...need I say more! Now, when Cadets march and play they are amazing - but there just is not enough!

Now, do I believe the students are being challenged - YES, but again - I think there could be more.

But, it has no bearing on if the kids today are more talented today then yesterday - I really think they are more talented now in many aspects (now before anyone jumps down my back - keep reading). Read this year’s DCI Show Day Booklet and you will see, what we really all know, that close to 90% of all participants in this activity are either in college going for some type of music or performing arts degree or plan on that once they get there – READ - "once they get there" (i.e. High Schoolers).

Now some History: Back in the early or "olden" days, most all - let me repeat - most all of the music was taught by "rote" or note by note. Sure, there was music handed out, but most horn players and drummers couldn't read music (I couldn’t when I decided to march bass drum – 1984 Spirit of ’76 Senior Corps). Also, going to college was not first and foremost on the minds of most of us in the activity at that time. It was a very different time then that most of the fans today just don't know about or understand. Those that lived it - no explanation is necessary. (Michael Boo, Paul Milano, and others from the 60’s and 70’s, early 80’s, etc. You know what I am talking about!) Now, were we less talented back then…hmmm, probably not, but I would bet anyone out there it was harder on the members as well as the instructors!

Now to try and share what answers to your questions I know – and/or commiserate with you:

1) I wouldn't doubt that DCI has some financial stuff to deal with. I would love to know the salaries of some of these folks and why they had or wanted to make the move to Indy. I think this somewhat fits in with part of your question #3, since BOA moved there first – but it is my understanding that they really got a break on office costs, I’m sure they won’t pay much longer for the place in Illinois. Might be better off in the long run. Especially since finals are there for the next 100 years! You know they aren’t going anywhere else.

2) Not quite sure about the rising gas costs as much as what it costs to buy a ticket! $75 to get a decent seat is totally nuts!

3) Ok, not sure how to deal with this one. I agree and disagree. I was married to a band director for 18 years. I was his colorguard/winter guard director and instructor and we had a very competitive band in Illinois. We never got on the latest/greatest DC bandwagon so-to-speak, but now, especially since I am now a marching band judge, I can see your point.

4) I believe that this too shall pass. 10 or so years ago color guards hardly ever had a real piece of equipment in their hands (meaning flags, rifles, sabres). It was all props – but that has finally evolved back (Thank Goodness!). Narrations…see next…

5) There is a difference in my mind between Narration, Added Effect and Amplification. Amplification of the pit and soloists I truly hate. It is just much too loud and was never needed before so why now? Especially when we are talking about Championships being in a Dome for the next 10 years. Hello! (Don’t even get me started on that one – this is supposed to be an outdoor activity!!!) Ok, vent over… and I’m much better now. Narration, such as what Cadets have been doing, is just way too much as well. If I can’t figure out the show on my own then either I am dumb as a stump or you are not communicating it to me – and sorry folks (directors, designers and staff), but that is your job! It’s worked for 80 some years in this activity. Now for Added Effect = “They’re coming down the stretch…” (Crown last year), etc., those short little hits work for me and they work with the story. OK, I know I can’t have it both ways, so if that’s the case then get rid of it entirely – we haven’t needed that either for the last 80 years. But my point is, if it stays - don’t overuse or abuse it! Heck, Phantom is finally getting the story of Spartacus across without those little handouts they used way back when (does anyone remember those?)!

6) As far as I am aware, there are incentives for longer term members as far as dues reductions, sponsorships, etc. I did some checking into this last year to be better informed when I was explaining “all things Drum Corps” to a newbie contest attendee. No corps wants to lose a former member, especially one that knows the “ropes” and is a good role model for rookies. So, I don’t think that money is the total reason why some do not return. The time commitment I really believe has more to do with it. That is so much more intense now days then it was for us.

Vic’s quote: “On one hand, and sadly, I am of the opinion that DCI will no longer exist unless some serious changes take place. Changes in the area of judging, the creative direction (if you want to call it that) of the activity, the business practices of DCI as an organization, and the ridiculous rule changes that the board of directors have been "brain-washed" into approving!!”

Vic, I do agree that some serious changes need to take place. I am not convinced that the rule changes have been a result of Band Directors, but more of the design teams that want to push the envelope even further. And while that can and should be a good thing, I think that they all need to figure out a way to push that envelope and get outside the box with what the activity has in its basic and original form. Anyone can create bigger, better, faster, stronger, longer when you have “extra supplies” to work with. The astronauts of Apollo 13 were going to die unless their “design team” on Earth could figure out how to make things work with what the astronauts had on hand in Space.

Like you Vic, I wonder, why can’t this activity break new grounds with what we have (or have had in the past).

But, I don’t think that will happen!

I don’t think it is totally a DCI organizational or BOD thing, I think it is more of the mind-set of (OK, I know I will get majorly slammed for this) the younger generation of design staff and members of the activity. The “I can’t be without my cell phone/the Internet/texting capabilities – or the “I can’t be out of touch” (really the, “I don’t know how to be out of touch”) generation. I am not – REPEAT – am not slamming anyone – just making a point! We have become a society of having an attention span (especially age 25 and lower) of maybe 20 seconds, and that may be on the high side. But also many of us in the “more experienced range” have succumbed to that as well! It’s hard not to have been.

I am a newbie as far as DCP goes. Not sure why, since I have been involved in this activity for 46 years. My brother marched from the age of 10-22 (1961-72) in The Racine Boy Scouts and Racine Explorer Scouts (The Chrome Domes). I marched from ’75-87 in Racine Scouts, Kilties, Spirit of ’79, and Chicago Vanguard.

All I am really trying to do is see both sides of the spectrum and hope that others on this site see those sides too! I want the members of this site to know that I’ve been there, done that and wish it could always be that way - but to also let them know that I understand that the activity needs to continue to grow as well.

Vic, I just hope, as I believe you do too, that this wonderful activity that we call Drum and Bugle Corps stays an activity that we want to be and can be proud to be a part of. Let’s hope that the future designers and directors of this activity realize that there is so much you can still do without “extra supplies”.

Thanks y’all for listening to my rant! (Ok, born and raised in Wisconsin, but been a Georgia Peach for almost 15 years now!)

P.S. It also really P!sses me off that no one thought of a thing like “blast!” while I was young enough to do it! UGH!!!!!!!!!

Donna

[CrunchyTenor]

Having "known" Vic from RAMD and DCP, he has a POV that many modern drum corps fans won't agree with. That's OK. But to just take pot shots without reasonable debate doesn't make his points any less valid. In fact, it shows a lack of ability to argue a point. how about all the people who just dismissed Vic's comments actually address them and attempt to prove him wrong?

Here's my take...Part 1

Well, fellow DCP-ers, it has been over a year since I have posted, but rest assured I have been a regular reader, and truly appreciate mostly everyone's thoughts and passion for our activity.

It is with that in mind that I find myself punching up a post/topic tonight.

Where is our activity going from a "creative" standpoint? What will "DCI" look like in 2022 when my 16 month old son may choose to march his first year in a World Class corps? On one hand, and sadly, I am of the opinion that DCI will no longer exist unless some serious changes take place. Changes in the area of judging, the creative direction (if you want to call it that) of the activity, the business practices of DCI as an organization, and the ridiculous rule changes that the board of directors have been "brain-washed" into approving!!

I will agree that to some extent we've been sold a bill of goods. Many of the recent rule changes were proposed with all sorts of possible improvements that haven't born fruit (except an increase in the bank account for Yamaha).

Take, for example, the amplification rule. The original argument was to allow the pit to reduce the number of keyboards and adopt more of a "concert style" in the approach to the instruments, but we still have huge numbers of keyboards, and their stillpounding the bejeezus out of them. All we did was add another investment in equipment, more crap to haul around, and more drain on tight finances.

I mentioned my 16 month old son. Guess what his favorite thing (video/DVD) is to watch? Give up?....... The 1980 27th Lancers!! Guess what his next favorite thing is to watch? Give up again?.... The 1993 Star of Indiana!!!! Goes to show you that "old school," and a show with some DEMAND in it are and SHOULD still be the norm in DCI rather than the exception!! Yes -- I'll say it again... Goes to show you that "old school," and a show with some DEMAND in it are and SHOULD still be the norm in DCI rather than the exception!!

I think demand has changed. I would say that there was more demand from the brass players trying to tame the G bugle BITD. The kind of demand from squad marching is different from the drill demands today. Perhaps the simpler brass and battery arrangments are a product of the drill demands of the modern era. Any difficult articulation phrases, or demanding battery phrases, are done in stop time. I'm saying that demand is different, not necessarily more or less over the last 30/40 years, inclusive.

Now before I go any further, many of you may remember that I am an avid advocate of bringing back a demand sub caption for at least the music captions.

I am at a loss as to why corps who play quarter notes and half notes for 75% of their show (brass books) are being rewarded with 18 plus points in the GE Music and performance captions. It's easy to clean easy brass (and drum) books, so what's the point? Why aren't some of these corps challenging the "students" as Jim Prime did with Star's 1993 (and 1991!) brass book, or Wayne Downey did with BD's 1994 and 1995 brass books??

See my comment above.

Are the kids marching today any less talented than they were 15 to 20 plus years ago??

Nope. They also don't take kids of the streets and teach them to play anymore, either. High School band has replaced feeder corps.

Now before the "hammerers" come after me in this forum, I am still a supporter of the activity. However if some of the current direction of the activity continues to go where I think it's going, then my money will be spent elsewhere, and my son will never set foot on a football field as a member of any corps!!

Well, never say never. But I understand where you're coming from.

End of response Part 1. Too many quoted blocks for Invision's software!

Garry in Vegas

Edited August 1, 2008 by CrunchyTenor

[CrunchyTenor]

Part 2. I hope it fits!

Now some questions and comments:

1). DCI -- why are you financially in dire straights?? (Rumor has it after this year you'll be $500,000 in the hole!) You were in a similar position before moving to Indianapolis, and are still paying rent for offices in Illinois where you moved from!! Might I suggest mandatory attendance at a Financial Peace University for all DCI staffers and the entire DCI Board of Directors!!

If DCI could afford to pay financial professionals they would be in much better shape...probably. Even companies with degreed financial professionals are dropping left and right. It sure couldn't hurt, though, to expand their knowledge.

2). Fan attendance is down due to rising gas costs, but more importantly due to ticket prices that are unrealistic!! Again, someone needs to come up with a solution (I've suggested many over the years, so I will not belabor the point here).

As the number of corps, and shows, declines, so does overall attendance. That's simple economics. Citing a sold out NIGHTBeat is one competition. What we've lost are the weekend shows that used to take place nationwide from May (!!!) through July, then the series of National Championships in August, followed by more local shows into September (!!!). Yes, these were shows featuring more local corps. They weren't shows that had three or four finalist corps, but when there are only 20 World class corps left, and the tour last six weeks, it's a different world.

3). Your current roster of judges includes many band directors, and they are the ones "nudging" the activity in the direction it has gone from a design standpoint the past 6 years. Although on the surface it may not appear that way, but take any novice fan and drop them in as an audience member at a BOA Superregional, and then at a DCI show and I got $1,000 bucks that says they will be hard-pressed to tell the difference!! The activity used to have a clear distinction between marching band and drum & bugle corps, but that isn;t the case any more! No -- I am not slamming the marching band activity, but the distinction I speak of used to be true!!

Well, in some ways we have no one to blame but ourselves. We brought corps-style design, demand and execution to the band world when we started teaching there after (and sometimes before)aging out of junior corps. We made the feeder corps obsolete. We made the band world a reflection of our world. And along with that came a reverse flow back in to drum corps.

4). Why not be bold, and "nudge" the activity back into it's uniqueness? Pass a rule banning narration and props for a year ot two! Pass a rule stating that color guards have to actually do equipment work for at least 70% of the show time limit that a corps is on the field!!

Because the instructors wouldn't even entertain the thought when Tim Kviz presented his proposals. (Hey, it's a two-way street!)

5). BAN ELECTRONICS!!

See above. More tools means less need to create sounds acoustically. Too challenging, I guess.

6). Why aren't their "incentives" for marching members who say with a corps for 3 plus consecutive years?? The average length of time a young person marches with a corps has gone from 5.2 years in 1992 to 2.2 years in 2006. yes -- the cost of marching may have something to do with it, thus the suggestion on incentives!

Do the Madison Scouts still have a retrograde rate for returning vets, and family discounts? Didn't Cavaliers do that, too?

In closing let me say that my intention to open up a preverbial "can of worms" by posting is on purpose and fully intentional!! Those of us who have loved, lived, and supported this activity for decades are witnessing the slow death of the activity whether we want to see it or not! It's high time that we make our voices heard so the "powers that be" quit acting like the U.S. Congress (doing very little or nothing) and start taking action!

Nothing wrong with promoting discussion, as long as people discuss without cheap shots and actually debate the relevant points, and express themselves clearly without personal attacks.

Ok -- I am stepping off of my soapbox now. Thanks for listening (reading).

Nice try, Vic. You've already seen the kind of responses a challenge can elicit.

Garry in Vegas

PS Nice post, Donna!

Edited August 1, 2008 by CrunchyTenor

[elliotdo]

I started my reply to this thread shortly after it was posted. I spent nearly 3+ hours on my reply. Once I posted and then read some of the comments from others I was deeply disappointed in nearly everything I read. The Drum Corps Community is supposed to be a family. We don't know each other so-to-speak, but we meet here, we meet at shows, talk outside having a cig, or at at local resturant when we see a corps shirt - so what's up with all the nasty talk and replies? I'm not talking about healthy debate back and forth - there was some nasty ### #### posted! Even though everyone is entilied to their opinion, there is no reason to diss someone for their's! In the few days I have been a member of this site I have not seen anything like this on any of the threads except this one. Shame on all of you!

[elliotdo]

Part 2. I hope it fits!

If DCI could afford to pay financial professionals they would be in much better shape...probably. Even companies with degreed financial professionals are dropping left and right. It sure couldn't hurt, though, to expand their knowledge.

As the number of corps, and shows, declines, so does overall attendance. That's simple economics. Citing a sold out NIGHTBeat is one competition. What we've lost are the weekend shows that used to take place nationwide from May (!!!) through July, then the series of National Championships in August, followed by more local shows into September (!!!). Yes, these were shows featuring more local corps. They weren't shows that had three or four finalist corps, but when there are only 20 World class corps left, and the tour last six weeks, it's a different world.

Well, in some ways we have no one to blame but ourselves. We brought corps-style design, demand and execution to the band world when we started teaching there after (and sometimes before)aging out of junior corps. We made the feeder corps obsolete. We made the band world a reflection of our world. And along with that came a reverse flow back in to drum corps.

Because the instructors wouldn't even entertain the thought when Tim Kviz presented his proposals. (Hey, it's a two-way street!)

See above. More tools means less need to create sounds acoustically. Too challenging, I guess.

Do the Madison Scouts still have a retrograde rate for returning vets, and family discounts? Didn't Cavaliers do that, too?

Nothing wrong with promoting discussion, as long as people discuss without cheap shots and actually debate the relevant points, and express themselves clearly without personal attacks.

Nice try, Vic. You've already seen the kind of responses a challenge can elicit.

Garry in Vegas

PS Nice post, Donna!

Thanks back to you Garry! Your post was great too! You also gave me Hope in this community! Are you going to be in Bloomington?

Donna

[jwillis35]

Deman is MUCH, MUCH harder these days than in the past. You can't argue that.

I think the OP has some excellent points, and in many ways he is right about demand. Above, you say that demand is "much, much harder" these days and that we can't argue that; but we CAN.

What I see from a lot of corps today is whole note, half note, quarter note simplicity while running around with their head cut off like a chicken.

Sounds harsh, but I think it makes the point. From a physical standpoint the activity has moved more toward that of a "sport," where endurance and conditioning is needed to aid in marching today's visual books. The visual design of the average show is certainly more demanding today than years ago, but I think the music from the 70s, 80s, and early 90s is easily more demanding than a lot of what we hear today. I am not saying ALL OF IT, but the majority of Div I (World Class) shows I hear have brass and percussion books that cater to the visual more so than the other way around.

You see, it truly has become a visual activity more so than music with the right combination of visual.

So the activity has advanced, but it has also lost some of its musical soul.

To be specific, I see many corps try to create the effect of demand by playing avant-guard music, or music that has been spliced and diced, so that the varying effects and transfer of melodic line to all the voices in snippets creates the illusion of demand. Then as a phrase comes to a close or builds to a climax, the tempo will kick up a few notches and the corps will go into augmentation mode where the melody is largely dramatized by long tones in most voices and a few moving lines in the mid-voices, and during this time the drill will change set every 4 to 8 counts to create the illusion of demand and excitement.

Now, this may sound too generalized, but what we are getting from way too many corps is this: Physically fit young people who can run around on the field, changing set every 4 to 8 counts or faster than a speeding bullet, and while doing this they are playing whole notes and half notes, and very simplistic musical lines as they work up a cardiovascular moment to music that has been chopped, diced, sliced, and butchered so that drum lick after drum lick can be interjected to "add creativity and change of pace" as the corps sells their show to judges.

Meanwhile, here is what many fans get: Music that is uninteresting, too chopped to make any connection, and sometimes over arranged to make any sense, and they get visuals that change too often and too fast for any effect to build. By the time the fan figures out what is going on, another set, then another hits, and the show just goes by like a blur. In many cases, the music just enhances the "blur" and that is why people can't follow many of the shows. The music doesn't always stand on its own.

I do believe that in recent years corps have made strides to better the enjoyment and understandability of their shows, but when it comes to demand, visual has perhaps gone too far, and the music's role has declined.

Edited August 1, 2008 by jwillis35

[Pinwiz]

Ok -- I am stepping off of my soapbox now. Thanks for listening (reading).

I'd respond to some of your statements, but the thread is already crazy so there's no way that we could have a real conversation.

[TerriTroop]

6). Why aren't their "incentives" for marching members who say with a corps for 3 plus consecutive years?? The average length of time a young person marches with a corps has gone from 5.2 years in 1992 to 2.2 years in 2006. yes -- the cost of marching may have something to do with it, thus the suggestion on incentives

I'm in a rush this morning, so I haven't read other responses but this point caught my eye because this is something I'm going to be getting into very directly. It's up to each corps to find ways to do this, and I'm hoping to be part of the solution for the Troopers in the coming years. I don't want to post specifics until I know more about the numbers and the people who step up have developed a strategy. But trust me, it's been on my mind all year.

[Bleu Raeder]

Meanwhile, here is what many fans get: Music that is uninteresting, too chopped to make any connection, and sometimes over arranged to make any sense, and they get visuals that change too often and too fast for any effect to build. By the time the fan figures out what is going on, another set, then another hits, and the show just goes by like a blur. In many cases, the music just enhances the "blur" and that is why people can't follow many of the shows. The music doesn't always stand on its own.

I think it interesting that one of the prettiest musical moments this year that received some of the greatest crowd response in the shows that I saw suppports your arguement here. The Bluecoats play the Boxer (Paul Simon) chorale style about 3/4's of the way through their show...it is a brief but powerful moment, well played and beautifully arranged. The music very much stands on its own.

I am admittedly old school but I have enjoyed many of the changes creatively and technically that have come about in DCI. But like the OP I fear that drum corps identity is getting lost. If we do end up with 10 "super" corps' it will be the same as any other sports league with all of the tripe that comes along with it. Once that happens, and the activity moves the furthest away from its roots as a youth activity, we will have lost forever all the things that drum corps has meant to so many.