OK Olde Phartz

[BRASSO]

I hope the changes will drive away some of the "legacy fans"

THEY DRIVE ME WACKO always expecting things to be the way they were when THEY marched, and thinking the shows are designed for THEM instead of the marching members

Sooner old timers are gone the better IMO

Sorry to be blunt but that's my few - if DCI doesn't continue to change it will die

Except for minor changes.....The Opera Shows at the NY Metropolitan Theatre has not changed in 50 years.

The Bolshoi Ballet has not changed...... Major League Baseball has not changed the baseball thrown, nor the baseball bat ( aluminum bats are not even authorized)....... the NFL and College football has not changed in any material way. The ball is still pigskin..... the NBA has not even allowed a change in the color of the basketball ( the ABA multi- colored basketball was voted down )........ Soccer has not changed much at all in 50 years in terms of the ball, the net, the rules, etc...... NHL Hockey has not changed much at all in 50 years.... the puck is still the same size, net the same size, stick same size, etc....... the Rocketts show in NYC has not changed in 50 years...... the Las Vegas Show Girls shows have not changed in 50 years...... and on and on.

And all of the above..... have grown their fan bases..... and have become profitable...... without changing much of what made them attractive and successful in the first place.

This notion that if Drum Corps does not change it will die is not supportable by the evidence.

As a matter of fact, a compelling case can be made that Drum Corps is dying as a direct result of TOO MANY changes in such short time that it has been a shock to it's system and it's fan base, and as a result they have struggled both financially and in growing it's members and spectator base. This year, may have been a refeshing pause to reflect on it's direction in terms of MAJOR revolutionary changes in it's format.

Edited August 13, 2008 by BRASSO

[greggmanX-Kingsmen]

I hope the changes will drive away some of the "legacy fans"

THEY DRIVE ME WACKO always expecting things to be the way they were when THEY marched, and thinking the shows are designed for THEM instead of the marching members

Sooner old timers are gone the better IMO

Sorry to be blunt but that's my few - if DCI doesn't continue to change it will die

I remember people complaining back in the mid-70's when uniform inspections were done away with. Those who march and instruct now should dictate what the style and rules are. It's their activity now and up to them.

And up to us if we want to watch it, or support it.

[MikeD]

I remember people complaining back in the mid-70's when uniform inspections were done away with. Those who march and instruct now should dictate what the style and rules are. It's their activity now and up to them.

And up to us if we want to watch it, or support it.

Exactly so. My dad, for example, used to always tell me how much has missed the old "off the lines" when corps no longer had to start in one end zone and exit out the other.

[Tom Brace]

Exactly which argument are you referring to? If I read your post correctly you would be in favor of "anything goes", am I correct? If so, I'll quit right here because it would be obvious that we look at things very differently and I'll happily leave it at that.

I think I stated correctly the only known MUSTS in the activity. A corps must show up on time, leave on time, etc. Corps can still march G brass if they choose to purchase a line of horns that has a very limited resale value. Corps can still choose to march their pit equipment if they want to. The only membership limit I know of is that corps need to have at least 30 members. So, corps make decisions within the confines of the rules that the corps themselves vote and decide on.

I just don't ever accept the idea the corps HAVE to have amp'd brass or narration. It's an artistic choice.

[Tom Brace]

I will probably be crucified for some of my thoughts but here goes.

As a person who was very involved in the activity in the 70’s and 80’s, my perspective on the current situation is based on what I saw develop during this time.

I have not been active or seen any shows in the past 20 years. I was given a ticket to the quarterfinals at a local theater and was surprised at what I saw.

Prelims/Finals

In my time, prelims were a two day affair. Although I do not have the statistics, there were probably upwards of 50 corps in prelims, maybe more. Back then, there were only prelims and finals. You either finished top 12 or you were out. Given the limited number of groups today, I think DCI should go back to this system. It’s highly unlikely that a 15th place group is going to improve enough in 24 hours to make finals. I would suggest that open class prelims be on Wednesday with finals on Friday and world class prelims on Thursday with finals on Saturday. This would give the finalists 48 hours to change/improve/perfect whatever they want.

Show Design

The metamorphosis in show design is stunning. Certainly things change with time but are the changes for the better? Is there such a thing anymore as a color presentation? Does anyone bring the American flag onto the field? Is there any reverence to our past? It wasn’t that long ago that having the flag on the field was a requirement.

It was really difficult to understand to what extent show design has changed. In my outlook, there are no more color guards. There are dance troupes. There are not even unis which in any way match the brass & percussion. Some of the dance troupe attire looked like it came from K-Mart. I realize this is a negative statement. I fear that the activity has lost much of the “class” we worked to develop.

It felt like an attempt to be Broadway rather than being corps. There is nothing wrong with being either one. It appears creative side has overtaken the performance and execution side. Is there still a .1 penalty for drops? I saw many drops throughout the evening. Corps always prided themselves on execution and precision. Certainly the visual aspects are more demanding. At the same time, I saw visual breakdowns in the top four units. It may be worth considering re-instituting some of the old tic sheets. I think there are far more tics out there than people realize.

And another quick issue. Are there no longer defined beginnings and ends? I noted corps having pits playing and/or movement just prior to the main part of the show starting. Why is this allowed?

Music Selection

I remember the 1st time I saw some of the major corps, Phantom Regiment, Kilties, Oakland Crusaders, Spirit of Atlanta, Blue Devils, Vanguard, Garfield. To this day, I think I could still hum some of their music. Beethovens 9th, Flight of the Bumblebee, Georgia, Pagliacci, El Gato Triste as examples. I just sat and watched several hours of performances. I don’t think I could hum anything I heard. This is just a thought, and I will probably be severely criticized, but I would love to see someone play music that is catchy and memorable. Not to say that anyone is playing anything which is improper, it just does not leave the same impact on the next generation as it did for me a few years ago.

I’m going to use Spirit of Atlanta as an example, I’m not individualizing or saying this only applies to them. I would suggest that every drum corps fan of the 70’s and 80’s at sometime left a stadium humming Georgia and/or Let It Be Me. Who left IU humming something from BD? Who left humming something from Garfield? Who left humming anything that they will still remember years down the road? I believe that if the activity is going to continue to attract members and grow rather than decline, that improved music selection will be a key factor. I’m not saying we have to back up to the 1930’s. I’m suggesting that revisiting and revising some of those great favorites from 20-30 years ago could be a healthy and prosperous move. When I see BD, I expect to hear some beautiful jazz with creative arrangements. I’m still not sure what I heard from BD. Madison, Troopers, & Carolina Crown were, in my opinion, headed in the right direction with their pieces.

And drop the narration stuff. Maybe a little like Bluecoats had was tolerable but theirs was probably too much as well. Garfield was off the deep end. The narration was completely detached from the musical performance and was distracting at best. For decades, corps designed shows that people could understand and appreciate without narration. If the activity has reached the point whereby narration is necessary, I suggest that the activity has moved backward by decades.

Brass

I was told that the traditional 2-valve G bugles are gone in favor of 3-valve B flat horns. If the activity is going to be honest to itself, the name should be changed. These are no longer drum & bugle corps (D&B) because bugles are not being used. They are drum and brass bands (D&BB). I’m not passing judgment here about the merits of these, I’m just being honest. I think the activity has lost a great deal of uniqueness in that the sound is not nearly as bright and full sounding with the B flat. But it is what it is. I suspect the driving factors behind this were easier transition for band students and cost. I just want the activity to be honest and there is nothing wrong with being D&BB. Just do not claim to be D&B when you are not D&B.

Percussion

As a former percussionist, I was amazed and disappointed at the same time. I do recall the time when the pit was created. I also recall when everything was carried. I think the pit has grown out of control. I specifically watched one of the top eight and unfortunately cannot recall specifically which D&BB it was but the pit extended 30 yards! It seems like there is a contest as to who can find the most stuff to throw in there.

Does anyone beside me enjoy watching some of the 70’s and 80’s corps on You Tube? If you’ve not done so, go watch some of them. Notice how clean the field is compared to today. Sure there has been some interesting musical effects added, but at what cost? What would happen if someone dropped about 50% of the pit and went back to marching equipment? A renaissance could develop in the activity by having some movement in this direction.

There’s no easy way to say this but I’m really disappointed with the drum tuning. The snares sound like thud with snap and the altos (formerly known as tenors) are way too high in pitch. That may be why they do not seem to project as well. And for the bass lines, drop the high drum and add some bottom out there. If I were running one of the lines, I would go back and try 15” snares with Silver Dots. At least they had some tone quality.

On a positive note, the demand is there given the number of notes played combined with the running across the field. Is it tougher than those of years ago? I’m not sure.

I will not crucify you or your opinions. We just happen to disagree on some things. I thinking grounding the pit has benefitted some members by being able to display their incredible talents....one of which happens not to be marching.

I could go on, but again, we disagree.

[JimF-LowBari]

Exactly so. My dad, for example, used to always tell me how much has missed the old "off the lines" when corps no longer had to start in one end zone and exit out the other.

And I got to hear "that ain't Drum Corps" in the mid 70s from people who started in the late 50s. Back then some of the younger folks thought the oldsters were crazy not to enjoy the (mid 70s) style.

By the late 80s/early 90s lot of those 70s people left because of what was going on the field. Just like I see 80s/90s members not liking or leaving because of the last few years of changes.

Nuthin' new under the sun...

[Tom Brace]

I see just as many young people with great attitudes that did not like narration. So your comments seemed an oversimplification, and an inacurrate portrayal in my view. I like The Cadets. But both young and old alike found their particular use of narration in this particular show this year flawed. Their Director even admitted as such at Finals Week to a reporter in a frank and candid moment.

.

Likewise, the appeal this year of the the Phantom Regiment, Blue Stars, Boston, Crown and some other Corps was shared by both young and old alike.

You may want to rethink your wrong headed assumptions where your thread set out to pit older people with younger people here. The thread was divisive, where it need not have been. Had an older person started a thread with a pjorative referral on young people as " newbie band geeks " the thread would have been just as offensive as you're referral of older fans as " olde phartz ".

Neither is called for ( in my opinion ).

This was a terrific year for the majority of fans...both old and young alike. Those who want to pit the old and the young against one another, or the narration vs. non narration, or semi- narration issue as one that is age specific are simply wrong in my view.

This was a good year to celebrate the Corps that seemed to entertain us the most. Those Corps, whether coincidental or not, used little to no narration, little to no amplification, little to no large props o the field, and with themes that were easily identifiable.

And both the Young.... and the not so Young...... were equally entertained by these Corps.

Thanks for your thoughts. We happen to disagree on somethings. Fair.

[Tom Brace]

and yes bleed over from WGI is scary all over the place. can anyone do a drum feature now that doesnt look and sound like it was ripped off the previous years dvds?

Yes....and they were the champions this year. But, I agree with you here. There is a ton of WGI bleedover now more than ever.

But, I believe this trend will also dissolve over time as fans (and then finally judges) get tired of seeing the same tricks during the winter and summer.

Edited August 13, 2008 by Tom Brace

[Tom Brace]

Your opinion and you're entitled to it.

Now as someone who was a big supporter of several DCI corps before job loss in 2003, 22 months out of work, and a new job paying 35% less than my old one did made me re-evaluate spending, I have a request for all this new blood: OPEN YOUR #### WALLETS.

If you want us dinosaurs gone, you have to realize that the monetary support tends to go with it. Based on the number of letters stuffing my mailbox this season asking for extra money, it would appear that y'all aren't filling the gap that us old reptiles have left. Time to put up....

Thanks for reading.

Good call. I've been saying this since finals was over....time for us to continue opening or wallets just to have this activity survive.

See, it's easy to get distracted with the narration argument, however I also see the usefulness of the argument at the same time. Narration lost at finals this year. And I believe I'll also have a beer when I can step on its grave.

See...the toys as some people call them...are really frosting...we can fight about them or not, but the cake which is drum corps survival....both DCI and DCA are predicated on those of us...who can...to step up and support it with our resources. See, I have never supported a political candidate before....financially....until this year. I have been able to do so in the past, I just chose not to. I figured my vote was enough. Well, this year, it appears my vote is not enough, so I write a check each month to a candidate, a party, and an affilitated group supporting several candidates.

I used to just attend drum corps shows...buy a t-shirt maybe. That was enough. I now feel that I must support corps I believe in and also the association that supports all corps.

But, that's my choice.

[Piper]

It hasn't really "brought me back into the fold". Congrats to the Regiment and all the corps on a great year, but next season will be mostly DCA for me. No annoying amps, vocals or electronic keyboards. If I want that stuff I can go to a rock concert. I'm already looking forward to Labor Day.