In light of the retreat discussion

[crm]

Respect? As long as I'm being respected, why should I bother respecting anyone else? Traditions? My traditions are being respected and honored, why should I respect someone else's? I'm having a good time. That's a lot more important than respecting someone else's traditions.

Is this what some of the members of these corps are being taught?

By the way, I applaud the entire Cadets organization for the grace and poise they continue to display.

[rudi man]

Well, I’ve never been accused of hanging out in LA LA land, but ok. I’ve always believed it’s best to face my faults head on, but I’m going to have to think about this one for awhile……

Excuse me while I take off my mom hat and put on my “Worlds Biggest Drum Corps Fan” hat.

So I Googled “Esprit de corps” (It’s not a term we use here in LA LA land). Dictionary.com returned this definition:

a sense of unity and of common interests and responsibilities, as developed among a group of persons closely associated in a task, cause, enterprise, etc.

So ok, I’m trying to follow your point. We are, all of us, united in the common interest of drum corps. Not just the “Esprit de corps” developed among the corps, but all of us as parents, alumni, fans and staff. We definitely share a multitude of common causes. But right now, we are addressing retreat behavior. How am I doing so far?

First let’s talk about the issue of hate. A poster (skevinp) earlier in this thread did an admirable job of explaining this for me so I’ll just use a quote. (I love people who are able to articulate so well!.... Thank you!)

Next, let’s talk about finals night. Please remember I’m wearing my “fan” hat. I am really stuck on this one. Yes, yes, I completely understand the disillusionment, disappointment and multitude if issues many of you have expressed. There is no argument many of your concerns are justifiable. Many of the things that happened were wrong including the playing of America the Beautiful. But with that said, there are some ideas that I’m having a difficult time agreeing with.

I don’t think it’s wrong to have fun during retreat. Ok, ok, crossing the line into another corps block and coming onto the field drunk are not alright, but are you saying that anything but standing at parade rest is disrespectful? There just doesn’t seem to be a clear sentiment of where “this is funny” ends and “this is wrong” begins. I want to watch the kids have fun during those last moments together as a corps. The emotions, pictures of the audience, tossing Jolly Ranchers…I feel like it’s their time to be who they are. The corps, staff and alumni are ultimately responsible for ensuring their vision of the persona their corps exudes is met.

I think the staff responsible for these corps are amazing. I can’t even begin to imagine how they maintain the discipline needed to travel all summer with 150 young people and put such incredible shows on the field. These people have written the book and set the bars so high they almost have no where to go but down. And so here we go, calling them out for their “disrespectfulness”. Really? Really? A couple of young adults took it too far (most likely on their age out night) and all of a sudden we are claiming lack of discipline! Let’s give them some time to figure out what went wrong and react as they see appropriate. Why is there such a lack of faith? I’m dazed at how fast some were to judge and assume everything would be swept under the rug.

So Smitty, after your admission to loving these kids , I can’t help but like you, but I hope you understand that I may not agree with all of your views. I’ll resist the urge to put my mom hat back on and go on about how terrific my son is. But I will say this, he sets the standards for everything I hope to one day be.

Sounds like you are the kind of MOM anyone would be lucky to have ! And I do respect your opinions absolutly

I certainly dont think that these young people should have to stand at parade rest for all that time at ease would be fine .

I was mainly referring to the antics of some other corps from what I seen . My corps The Glassmen were absolutly

dignified and professional during the entire retreat ! I'm so proud of my kids !!!!!

Edited August 19, 2008 by rudi man

[Leland]

I don't think it's time for corps members "to be who they are". It's a time to show the world what they've become.

Best line yet.

[Leland]

I don’t think it’s wrong to have fun during retreat. Ok, ok, crossing the line into another corps block and coming onto the field drunk are not alright, but are you saying that anything but standing at parade rest is disrespectful? There just doesn’t seem to be a clear sentiment of where “this is funny” ends and “this is wrong” begins.

There is, but it's not always obvious to people who are new to the activity -- and unless it's taught to the marching members (by people like us, really -- the corps staff grew from, and love, drum corps like we do), they won't learn it, either.

It's still collectively "our" activity, from the 2008 rookies to the old alumni. It's "our" job to teach about, and preserve, what traditions we have while allowing the activity to grow and move forward.

[BACMom]

There is, but it's not always obvious to people who are new to the activity -- and unless it's taught to the marching members (by people like us, really -- the corps staff grew from, and love, drum corps like we do), they won't learn it, either.

It's still collectively "our" activity, from the 2008 rookies to the old alumni. It's "our" job to teach about, and preserve, what traditions we have while allowing the activity to grow and move forward.

Another problem (and it has probably already been said) is that the individual isn't being looked at per se' - it is now "The Cavies" or "The Blue Coats". When you are in uniform and representing an organization, that is what happens, which is unfortunate but a fact. We may never know the personal identity of whomever was laying at the feet of the Cadets, but we definitely know who they were representing and therefore the enitre corps takes the blame and the entire corps reputation is tarnished.

[pistolpete]

I'm going to say this because it hasn't really been said and I think it should be because I think some of you are blowing this up way out of proportion in order to take a shot at The Cavaliers.

Yes, one of their members, in continuing their Samurai routine, was "killed" and fell into The Cadets block. Yes, he probably did it on purpose and yes, it was not a good idea. Yes, he messed up. But is it really fair to say because one member took it too far that the entire organization is full of undisciplined thugs? I mean, maybe back in the VFW days (if I remember correctly from Building the Green Machine ) but from all the members and staff I've met I've never gotten a disrespectful vibe. The guy took a joke too far, let's leave it at that.

But you can't hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick, perverted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg- isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do what you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!

Edited August 19, 2008 by pistolpete

[Leland]

But you can't hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick, twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational system in general? I put it to you, Greg- isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do what you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!

Hmmm, humm hum hum hum hum hummmm hummmm...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MFGeEil090

[MikeD]

Another problem (and it has probably already been said) is that the individual isn't being looked at per se' - it is now "The Cavies" or "The Blue Coats". When you are in uniform and representing an organization, that is what happens, which is unfortunate but a fact. We may never know the personal identity of whomever was laying at the feet of the Cadets, but we definitely know who they were representing and therefore the enitre corps takes the blame and the entire corps reputation is tarnished.

I don't even think it's "unfortunate"...it's what being part of an organization is all about. That's what I was taught in my Cadet days...and it's what we teach our MB kids today.

[StuStu]

But you can't hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick, perverted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg- isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do what you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!

No more calls, please, we have a winner.

[MilesandCassius]

But you can't hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick, perverted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg- isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do what you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!

Point of Parlimentary Procedure!