Rochester Review

[ESBarimom]

I don't think the ES member was taking offense but was asking the OP to clarify what he meant by Empire standing around. If somebody is going to post his/her opinions, you should be able to question it especially if that person is tied to another corps and you feel that he/she is wrong. The OP did have positive and negative(or constructive) points for each corps but I did find it very inconsistent. For example, Buccs stand still for approx 40 counts in Canon which to me seemed a lot longer than anything any other corps did. This wasn't mentioned in the review though to me it stood out like a sore thumb.

Just my opinion though.

You are absolutely correct. I am not taking any offense to what was written. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and what a great country we live in that we can express those opinions. I was really trying to understand what the author meant by "not moving". Perhaps it was his interpretation of our drill and that we didn't have enought curvilinear forms or that we may have played music at a slower pace for some of the show.....Could be a variety of things. So, I hope that I will hear back so I can better understand his interpretations. I will learn from it!!

As a side note, I'm very proud of the accomplishments of our corps as well as all of the other members of DCA. The Championship weekend is truly a celebration of the hard work we have put into our hobby, of the dedication we put behind our organizations and of the energy of all marching members/corps support personnel/corps staff members/corps fans. I celebrate this past year and truly look forward to next season.

So, to the author of this review, please, at some point, help me understand how to interpret your comments!

[ESBarimom]

Leslie,

You guys did an outstanding job! Mr. B would have loved this year's team. And a lot of corps would love to have Peter Weber as their drill designer. Heck, we even had Bush's 1986 drill designer on our brass staff.

In fact, I invite any of you to go to "a particular website where You can view video clips that others have posted," and look for "2008 empire statesmen - show closer."

Thanks Tom! I know how I felt when I left the field on Sunday night! WOW sums it up well. Didn't mean to start controversy - just trying to understand!! See you in November!!

[Tom D'Bomb]

Thanks Tom! I know how I felt when I left the field on Sunday night! WOW sums it up well. Didn't mean to start controversy - just trying to understand!! See you in November!!

Joey Pero had the quote of the weekend on retreat:

"That performance was off the hook, who cares what score we get, this is one for the record books. 20 years from now we'll say 'Remember Finals '08'"

[Jeff Ream]

I don't think the ES member was taking offense but was asking the OP to clarify what he meant by Empire standing around. If somebody is going to post his/her opinions, you should be able to question it especially if that person is tied to another corps and you feel that he/she is wrong. The OP did have positive and negative(or constructive) points for each corps but I did find it very inconsistent. For example, Buccs stand still for approx 40 counts in Canon which to me seemed a lot longer than anything any other corps did. This wasn't mentioned in the review though to me it stood out like a sore thumb.

Just my opinion though.

and this why many don't do reviews. why should the reviewer be called out for feeling as they do? it's their thoughts. you have the option to read it, or not.

I'm a drummer, yet I review all sections of the corps. does make anything i say in my reviews about those sections less valid? no, it's my thoughts. everyone has their thoughts and feelings on what's good, what isn't, and their own preferences to style of show/drill/drum book/you name it. remember, a review is just as subjective as the scoring sheets used.

and yes, in every review, someone gets offended. i just had some pm's the last few days to prove it

[Dale Bari]

and this why many don't do reviews. why should the reviewer be called out for feeling as they do? it's their thoughts. you have the option to read it, or not.

I'm a drummer, yet I review all sections of the corps. does make anything i say in my reviews about those sections less valid? no, it's my thoughts. everyone has their thoughts and feelings on what's good, what isn't, and their own preferences to style of show/drill/drum book/you name it. remember, a review is just as subjective as the scoring sheets used.

and yes, in every review, someone gets offended. i just had some pm's the last few days to prove it

Well, it's one thing to say, "I don't like" X. But, it's another thing to say something that is empirically incorrect.

Dave said he didn't think that Statesmen moved around enough. That's an opinion, because he didn't supply any evidence that it is true. However, it is something that can be actually known, to be proved or disproved. I think, if we dissected the drills of the Top 5 or so, we'd find that that statement is not true. Judges, as you well know, take those kinds of things into account in their work. If it were true, then ES' scores would've reflected that. But, they did not. He thought that Cabs should've placed 3rd, but the judges disagreed (as did you), so again he's pitting his opinion against the judges'. Someone's right and someone's wrong. Judges are supposed to be the experts, but I leave it for others to decide the outcome of that battle. If one wants to review the corps, then do so, but if one wants to criticize the judging (which is how I interpreted some of his comments), then that's a separate issue - don't make it a corps' problem.

Also, as a reviewer, one should try to be as internally consistent as possible. If one hits 2 corps for the same thing, then one should be consistent in how it affects their overall impression. It appears that Dave did not do this (re: movement of ES vs MBI).

He said he doesn't like props in general and didn't like ES' big signs. I say they were necessary to tell folks that they were honoring past Championship performances of their corps. It's perfectly valid for him to not like it, so no one "called [him] out" on it.

pvt_cairns also did a review of Finals. Some people called him out on not mentioning any other pits besides Reading's. (There were other criticisms, but that's the main one I recall, other than jabs at his lack of proficiency at spelling, IIRC.) Who jumped to his defense?

Leslie asked some legit questions. I know Leslie isn't trying to be controversial - she genuinely wants to know how Dave came to his conclusion and what other, deeper thoughts could he provide. As for Canuck, if he was really trying to slam Dave's review, he could've done so a lot more forcefully. Really, these criticisms of this review are pretty tepid, as fas as such reactions usually go. (ie, see critique's of pvt_cairns' review in a nearby thread.) Dave needs very little defense. I myself said it was a pretty good review (other than a couple of points).

I try to be as balanced as possible in my reviews. I also have two kids I'm trying to watch (so they don't get into trouble and so they don't disturb the other fans around us) so I probably don't get into the inner workings of the shows as much as I'd like. Maybe if I did, I might say something more "offensive", but so far I've never had any PM "hate mail" on my reviews. (And, I'd like to add that I did reviews before I had kids, too.)

[Canuck DCGroupie]

and this why many don't do reviews. why should the reviewer be called out for feeling as they do? it's their thoughts. you have the option to read it, or not.

I'm a drummer, yet I review all sections of the corps. does make anything i say in my reviews about those sections less valid? no, it's my thoughts. everyone has their thoughts and feelings on what's good, what isn't, and their own preferences to style of show/drill/drum book/you name it. remember, a review is just as subjective as the scoring sheets used.

and yes, in every review, someone gets offended. i just had some pm's the last few days to prove it

When somebody does a review generally people thank them for it. Leslie from ES was really only asking for clarification, she wasn't offended, rude or anything else but just questioned his thoughts on their drill. I too have seen nasty replies to reviews but this is not the case here. Also remember this is the DISCUSSION section of DCP. People can and will continue to contribute and comment on postings. That is what it is here for is it not?

[Mom2ZJ]

I love Dave .... I love his review ... that is all ....

great season everyone ...

Peace ....

[DCAforLife]

You are absolutely correct. I am not taking any offense to what was written. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and what a great country we live in that we can express those opinions. I was really trying to understand what the author meant by "not moving". Perhaps it was his interpretation of our drill and that we didn't have enought curvilinear forms or that we may have played music at a slower pace for some of the show.....Could be a variety of things. So, I hope that I will hear back so I can better understand his interpretations. I will learn from it!!

As a side note, I'm very proud of the accomplishments of our corps as well as all of the other members of DCA. The Championship weekend is truly a celebration of the hard work we have put into our hobby, of the dedication we put behind our organizations and of the energy of all marching members/corps support personnel/corps staff members/corps fans. I celebrate this past year and truly look forward to next season.

So, to the author of this review, please, at some point, help me understand how to interpret your comments!

In my honest opinion, every drum corps out there moved. They moved alot. The top 5 were just able to preform their drill better. If I were a marching member, I might honestly be offended by the statement. To do this activity, whether it be 60 sets, or 160 sets, it takes alot of physical strength. To play and move at the same time is something that many people cannot do.

All I ask is for people to give credit where credit is due. It takes alot of time, energy, to do what all 26 some odd drum corps did on Saturday.

Congrats to Every Single Drum and Bugle Corps that touched the field of competition on Saturday

[Bob Kidd]

Thank god I dont let the corps compete in spelling bee's in the off season.

I'm in!!!

[Dennis Argul]

This is all my fault.

Dave drove me to Rochester and he and I watched nearly all of Prelims together. Hannigan is right Dave!

I apologize.............

Really though, I enjoyed reading his review, especially since I know Dave to be a very talented performer who is very critical and analytical of himself and others and this was the first time he had ever watched this many Corps in a row for Prelims.

I personally thought everybody had some really cool ideas in their show and watching Prelims (this is only the second time I have ever done that!) is becoming a favorite drum corps pasttime for me!! I strongly recommend it!

By the way, my personal favorite moment was MN Brass' rendition of "Wrapped Around My Finger." Very creative and cool!

Here's looking ahead to an amazing 2009 for DCA!! Who knows what's gonna happen!!!!!

Peace,

Dennis

Edited September 4, 2008 by Dennis Argul