What would it take to get Pioneer from last place in World Class?

[hrnguy500]

its all about recruiting.

[Matt Billock]

I'll echo the same sentiment everyone else has - it's all in the recruiting and PR. Both an improvement in the marketing needs to be made, and a revamping of the image of the corps. I'm not talking "change the uniform" or "scrap the irishness," but there needs to be a concerted effort put into overcoming the perception that Pioneer is perennially last place.

While the corps was great back in the '90s, and still is great (as an alum I was very happy with the show this year), the marketing has always been a problem. Hell, I heard about the corps after my dad just happened to have a chance conversation with the percussion caption head's wife at a Circuit City, not through any sort of concerted recruitment effort. Come up with a full-color, 8 1/2" x 11" flyer, and paper all of the schools in Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, and Minnesota. Just a simple note to the band director there, along with a copy of the flyer, could have a vast effect. There are dozens of universities in and around the Chicago area that could serve as recruiting centers. Plus, there are hundreds of music stores between Chicago and Milwaukee that wouldn't mind putting up a flyer or three, or keeping a stack of business cards/postcard adverts near the register. Additionally, try and work with some of the other world class corps in the area. I know that I only marched Glassmen because someone on their staff called all the horns on their "cut list" from the Cavaliers when they had holes to fill.

Fighting the PR issue will be a bit more of a challenge. There needs to be a focus on entertaining the crowd. Play the Irish tunes, sure, but focus on two things: 1 - recognizable, and 2 - exciting. Rag on them as you will, two of my favorite shows from this past year were Carolina Crown and Bluecoats, because they did both of those things well. Revamping the PR will need to take one of two forms - the corps becoming a "Crowd favorite" regardless of placement (think Madison through the '90s), or the corps showing some upward mobility. To an extent it's a chicken-and-egg problem, but focusing on the recruiting will go a long long way towards getting both a stable membership through the winter and towards enhancing the corps' image in the activity.

Edited September 20, 2008 by Matt Billock

[corps-mudgeon]

I agree with all those who emphasize aggressive recruiting. That's important. But I also think that's just one facet of developing an institutional attitude that won't accept last place as a result. Can you balance fun and competitiveness? Yes, I think so, but to be competitive requires stretching, risk, and less toleration of mediocrity, which WILL threaten the current status quo. The ideas proposed for going after the audience instead of the score sheet sounds like a great, fun way to break the equilibrium.

"Better every day" is a process-oriented motto, not a results-oriented one. And if allowed, it is a motto that can promote complacency. Competitiveness requires a striving for excellence, not satisfaction that some improvement has been made.

Part of the current institutional philosophy that goes hand in hand with recruiting is the idea that Pioneer is a corps that will help members develop the skills needed to move to a higher ranking corps. I've had staff members tell me that to my face. It may be a pragmatic attitude that helps in the short term to get some members that can't march elsewhere, but the corps seems just a little too comfortable with that role. It encourages the revolving door mentality and reinforces the idea that the corps belongs at the bottom and isn't worthy of retaining the talent it develops.

These are a couple of examples of where the corps mindset is now and how it works against rising in the rankings. A corps doesn't need to be cutthroat to get better, but there needs to be some level of energy, vitality and restlessness that doesn't seem to be there right now. The atmosphere at a winter camp might be well described as "tranquil."

And that isn't necessarily bad. I wouldn't have a problem sending my kid to Pioneer because I know he would get a first rate experience from people I would trust. But knowing my kid, he wouldn't want to stay there because he couldn't stay complacent. It's good for what it is, but not for getting into semis.

Define an institutional attitude and vision that everyone buys into and the rest will follow. No procedural change is going to make a difference if the organizational mindset remains static.

After all that, I have just one word: B*witched.

[Pioneersop98]

As a former marching marching member and former staff member, I must say that I had a great experience at Pioneer. When I marched we had an attitude of "we are just as good as every other Div. 1 corps, and we are going to prove it to you". When I was on staff in 2000 (Brigadoon) and 2001 (Irish in the Civil War) we were smaller in size than when I marched but we had quality members and had consistent staffers for a few years.

I think three things would go a long way for Pioneer:

Recruit like nobody's business. I teach band here in Florida and 7 of my students marched with Pioneer last summer. I think it would be a good idea to do more recruiting here in the Sunshine State, maybe even hold some full corps camps down here and learn some drill before April or May rolls around. Florida is just bursting with talent, but it is so hard to get kids to travel to Wisconsin ($$$) and if there were well-organized Pioneer camps down here I think they could get a lot of kids to march. I already have a few more kids from my program who have heard from the Pioneer kids at school how awesome it was last summer and are chomping at the bit to go march there.

Staff retention...When I taught at Pioneer the staff worked well together and had been together since before I joined. Look at the scores/rankings from 1993 to 2001. They go up, up, up and their highest score ever was in 2001. Get quality staff and keep them.

Image...Three more of my students marched with a finalist corps (I won't say which corps). One of those kids is down on the Pioneer kids because they "finished last". When I was in college some other higher ranking finalist corps members used to dog me because I marched Pioneer (and we weren't finishing last when I marched). This is what kids think of when Pioneer is mentioned, "They finished last. They must suck." Because a lot of high school band kids don't realize that in DCI even last place is pretty #### good. Pioneer needs to have some POP and PIZAZZ to make more kids take notice and go, "That was cool, I want to march there." Even if they finish at the bottom of the heap, there has to be something about the image of the corps and the way that young people see it to make them want to go there.

I joined Pioneer after marching at Southwind. I first saw Pioneer in Houston, Texas in 1996. They were on the field before us and we were waiting at the gate to go on. I thought, "On yeah, Pioneer, they are a Div. 2 corps, yeah, we'll beat them." Then Pioneer opened up and when I heard that sound I got really worried. And, they whipped our butts by like 3 or 4 points and we never got close to them all season. I took 1997 off because I got married and moved to Florida. When my age-out year came in 1998, I could have gone just about anywhere to march, but I chose Pioneer because they were on the rise and I was blown away by their 1996 and 1997 performances. If they can recapture that feeling of "we are World class, we belong here, and we are going to kick butt" then I think more kids will decide to give Pioneer a shot.

I'll continue to recruit and promote here in Florida. I really want Pioneer to get back to being up in that Top 17 or higher.

Shane

[Jeff Ream]

Cutting & pasting part of my PM to Donny in the hopes that someone higher up at Pio reads it-

Firstly, I am a big Pio fan. They are one of my favorite corps for many reasons.

With that said, think the corps problem currently is marketing.

Do they have a marketing person? Who puts out news feeds/announcements for the corps? I think that on top of member & staff retention, marketing and developing thier image is one of the largest problems that Pio has.

Example- here it is Sept 19th and there have already been numerous news feeds on DCP about staff changes, retentions, etc for various corps. Those same news feeds are on those corps websites, usually front & center with recruiting/membership/audtion info adjacent to it.

I just went to Pio's website & had to dig around for something from Sept 10th and that was a "beg your friends to join our corps/go be our marketing dept" notice to the membership.

Kids are checking out all of the world class sites RIGHT NOW in September to figure out where they want to audition and if they go to Pio's site they see something from a week and a half ago!!!! In the fall when announcements are made, and marketing should be at an all time high, 10 days without an update on the website is NOT good. This is the time for the big marketing blitz, and waiting to do it in November/December is too late. Pio should be putting out announcements left & right to get the hype up about the corps already.

Instead of asking the kids to bring their friends, they should create a volunteer schedule so that there are members, alumni, and administration at a Pio booth at a band show every weekend. They need to be seen locally & get the "come have a fun summer marching with us" message out to the local masses.

I also think the kids check out all of the World class sites are accustomed to seeing a more professional setup with the news feeds, announcements, etc. They do not see other corps managers/staff telling their members to bring friends with them to camps. That right there to many people is an outward sign of desperation (even if it's not true, that's what they are projecting) It's not giving off the image that the corps has its act together, or that they are of the calibur of the other WC corps. The the Sept 10th message itself makes Pio appear like a scrappy disorganized group..... regardless of how stable their finances are, or how great the organizational abilities of the staff/director may be.

The image that the corps is giving off to potential members probably isn't the image that the corps wants to give off if it is serious about moving upwards in the ranks of world class. It seems to be much more of one that is just scraping by rather than the image of success.

Think about the larger corps & what happens when they have holes. Even the mid-level 12-16th place corps gave off the image of "we have these few holes left & need great people to fill them", not one of "OMG we have 8 holes, let's panic and show our panic to the world". They still keep in mind their marketing strategy because if not the rumor mill in the world of drum corps could hurt their recruting for the next year. Pioneer needs to figure out a marketing plan & follow it so that they project the professionalism that they have as a group onto their prospects. There must be someone in the alumni ranks that is in the marketing field that could advise the corps and give them a marketing plan- find that person!

I also think that Pioneer needs to join forces with an indoor guard program in the area.... maybe not to start one of their own outright, but to perhaps adopt/sponsor one in the area somehow.... find a local HS or someone else in the Midwest CG Circuit that wants an independent winterguard but doesn't have the facilities available. Pio pays/gives them the facilities to use & the guard members from the indoor unit get a discount on their summer Pio dues. Sure, it would be some outlay for Pio, but it could be a great marketing tool. Also the current Pio guard members got more experience thoughout the year and the Pio guard would gain more members from the indoor program b/c they'd be marching for cheap in the summer. Then when the drummers complain about the unfairness of it all, do the same for them with an indoor drumline....

I don't know a thing about staff retention, so if the staff is good but is underpaid, then give them all raises so they will stay.

So anyway, for me it really comes down to marketing & recruting. It doesn't matter what the corps plays, or how great the tour might be for the kids if the goal is to retain members and move out of last place. They need to seriously scrutinize the manner in which they advertise themselves to potential members, and make changes there first.

ding ding. i thought about this more this afternoon, and marketing is huge, but with that, a mindset is in order. it seems the corps is happy to train kids and send them elsewhere. that right there needs to stop, and it needs to be marketed as it's stopping.

if you let the world see you have turnover and feeling ok to be full of corps hoppers, you'll stay that way. pio doesnt do anything to make kids say "i wanna build this from ground zero."

[Tom Brace]

Tom Brace for corps director.....

no, but thanks for the endorsement.

I know Roman and his budget pretty well.

He most definitely cannot afford me.

[MrWyoming]

I am a Pioneer alum ('96) and current visual staff member ('07-'09).

Thank you all for your support and constructive comments. It's great to hear that people haven't just written us off and want us to get better.

Believe me, the staff is not happy that most of our members leave and go to different corps. Or that we get last place every year. And, although I thoroughly enjoy teaching visual, it is very disheartening to see every year that a lot of our strong players/marchers/spinners are no longer there and we have to go back and teach the basics to an almost entirely new crop of members. As you all have said, this has to stop. We can't change the past, although we can learn from it.

So, for my part of helping this great corps to get better, I will be back next season for the 3rd year in a row. I've also been keeping in touch with members from the last two seasons trying to get them to come back. I believe in what we can achieve and if the members see more staff returning then I believe they will want to return as well.

(I live in Wyoming, so unfortunately I can only help out so much during the winter months. But, I have been talking to people about marching Pioneer since the day I got back to the university.)

Shane, hopefully I'll get to meet you some day. Thanks for the recruiting efforts and sending us all of those talented members this summer. They were all great to work with and I look forward to seeing them back next season. (BTW, Andy does a great manta ray impression!)

[heycameraguy]

I'll still stand by my comments about Roman. Call him stoic to a fault if you must. The corps will ultimately go down the drain with him. He doesn't want to give up control when clearly he does not have the tools to make the corps compete. I'd bet he would give the corps to junior if he could, but I don't think junior wants it anymore. How do I know that? I've heard it. I would be thrilled if he took it over and injected new energy, but senior would be lurking around every corner making sure he adheres to things like that dumb uniform hat they have now, etc. Most of the traditions at Pioneer are excellent and should always have a place in the corps. I am not dissing that. But you cannot do the same things the same way every year and expect to move up in the competitive ranks. You can say that scores don't matter...and to an extent, they don't. But when they're not even close to other corps, it demoralizes a group like nothing else. And continuing down that road like Pioneer has since 2002, has created the situation it sits in today. If Roman really feels that continually doing the same things without risk will bring the corps different results, then he truly is out of touch.

It really saddens me to see the corps this way. I marched at the turn of the century when the corps did have success. I wish those in the corps today had that opportunity. Those semifinalist corps were built with experienced members, experienced staff members, a corps director that wasn't Roman, and well arranged Donny Allen brass books. The intrusion by Roman during those summers were minimal. His intentions are well meant and he does what he thinks is good for the kids, but at the end of the day, his ideas about what makes a good show, about the amount of rehearsal time the corps uses, and how to recruit and retain members just aren't getting the job done.

Why does the corps have such a fractured relationship with Milwaukee area band directors? Why is there no strong alumni orgaization? No regular souvie booth at shows? Or souvies sold online? Partnerships with local businesses providing support? No affiliations with Irish related civic groups or musical units, either in Milwaukee or in the midwest? I could go on and on.

He is comfortable with a last place corps because that is the only way he can keep control. If you guys want to flame me, flame on. But I know some of you will agree with me, whether you admit it or not.

[warsawstory]

More thoughts...

There has been some tough criticism on this thread. It seems like the posters with really strong feelings of Pioneer's leadership have done a good job of not making their criticisms personal. I think that shows how strongly everyone wants the kids to have a great learning experience and a successful competitive season. It is all about them, right? Well, maybe not 100%. Call me selfish but I want to be blown away again by Pioneer.

So...I've followed this thread very closely and no one has mentioned Pioneer's board of directors. Who sits on it? What are their feelings? Are they out there raising money and spreading the word? Is there anyone who wants to rock the boat? I don't think I've ever read anything about the board of directors on Pioneer's web site. Hmmm...I seem to recall Madison's board being very influential a few years back.

All that being said, I would just like to add that everyone who has posted so far has one thing in common. We all want to see Pioneer succeed, be competitive and give the kids a great experience.

[Kansan]

Recruit mostly locally to maintain a link to the community.

Fill the holes by recruiting out of State and bring in some ringers. Kansas City might be a good recruiting area. Many good High School Band Programs here. Also some Community Colleges without marching programs.

Drum Major:

Find a really charismatic Drum Major to lead the Corps and get the crowd fired up.

Brass:

Find some Screaming Soprano Players and some really Good Contra Players.

The Mellos and Baritones can range from average to good.

Drums:

Maintain the Drum Line as I think it's good enough for the job. (Pioneer has a handle on Drums)

Color Guard:

Recruit some good Rifle people and the rest can be a mix of talent.

Unifoms: Get Chris Green of Frontier to tweek the uniforms.

Show:

Get Tommy Keenum to put your show together. This man is a miracle worker and a motivational person.

Give him the freedom to create and you will have a crowd pleasing show.

Music:

Try departing from the normal Pioneer Show (just once as an experiment) but keep trooping the stands with Gary owen as a trade mark. Use some of the "Irish Music" in warm up as a signature. Bust into the show with something unexpected and rattle everyone.

Marketing: Seek out the Renegades management and get some ideas from them on marketing.

If you guys can bust out of the corner your painted into, the top 15 will be in reach.

Just my opinion. I like Pioneer, especially the Drum Line.

Edited September 20, 2008 by Kansan