audiodb Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 If people truly believe DCI needs to do more to support Open Class corps....cut out the middle man. Support the corps yourself. The more resources Open Class corps have, the more they can do. That's the bottom line. Great advice....you had a streak of excellent posts going. But then you had to go and say this: And if you truly believe it is DCI's responsibility to be the welfare nanny for these corps...then what are YOU doing to support that? What are you doing to support DCI? This is not about "welfare", Tom. We're talking about a group of corps that DCI relies on for their marketing claims. DCI could not sell itself as the promotional, educational and service arm of the drum and bugle corps activity, showcasing the top corps in North America, World Championships, yadda yadda yadda, without the involvement of the open-class corps. They won't let them be DCI member corps, though....but there is some quid-pro-quo. There has to be. This is like those arguments when someone says...well, these schools need to get better teachers and then votes to turn down paying any more taxes to support the schools. Unless you live on another planet...you need to understand the best teachers expect the best pay and they should get it if they are the best. The money has to come from somewhere...no such thing as a free lunch. No. The open-class corps have paid a very high price to DCI. They have given up their share of the spotlight (or, depending on who you talk to, been shoved out of the spotlight) so that DCI could "showcase the top corps" more and more. Friday night finals for class A was the first sacrifice; now, world-class takes the prime-time slots on Saturday, Friday and even Thursday. The regionals were next, with DCI eliminating class A and division II/III contests from their weekend focus events in favor of staging world-class corps exclusively. As this was not enough, the policy extended to the regional circuits. One by one, DCI assumed operation of the regions, and division II/III corps were again asked/shoved out of the spotlight. Their regional championship shows were phased out, and they have been lagely excluded from some shows and completely excluded from others. And every step of the way, these corps were expected to cooperate....and promised that DCI would take care of them, and treat them fairly. What is fair? I know one thing - expecting them to be self-sufficient isn't fair when they are denied the exposure they need to sustain drawing power. As people internal to the process have explained to me, it was once understood that DCI would need to, and rightfully should, "subsidize" these corps in exchange for the privilege of giving world-class 98% of the prime-time exposure. That is not "welfare". These corps earned it. Open-class has "taken one for the team" again and again, and they deserve that consideration. Has this understanding withstood the test of time? Hard to say....but if it hasn't gotten through to people here, that's not a good sign. Now, Tom, I can go either way on this. If DCI wanted to serve only their member corps, and leave the rest of the activity to fend for itself (and refrain from activity-wide marketing claims), that would have been fine. If DCI wanted to be an activity-wide agency, and adopted appropriately inclusive policies in the process, that would have been fine too. But to market DCI on activity-wide promises while only delivering for the member corps....I wouldn't condone that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Great advice....you had a streak of excellent posts going. But then you had to go and say this:This is not about "welfare", Tom. We're talking about a group of corps that DCI relies on for their marketing claims. DCI could not sell itself as the promotional, educational and service arm of the drum and bugle corps activity, showcasing the top corps in North America, World Championships, yadda yadda yadda, without the involvement of the open-class corps. They won't let them be DCI member corps, though....but there is some quid-pro-quo. There has to be. No. The open-class corps have paid a very high price to DCI. They have given up their share of the spotlight (or, depending on who you talk to, been shoved out of the spotlight) so that DCI could "showcase the top corps" more and more. Friday night finals for class A was the first sacrifice; now, world-class takes the prime-time slots on Saturday, Friday and even Thursday. The regionals were next, with DCI eliminating class A and division II/III contests from their weekend focus events in favor of staging world-class corps exclusively. As this was not enough, the policy extended to the regional circuits. One by one, DCI assumed operation of the regions, and division II/III corps were again asked/shoved out of the spotlight. Their regional championship shows were phased out, and they have been lagely excluded from some shows and completely excluded from others. And every step of the way, these corps were expected to cooperate....and promised that DCI would take care of them, and treat them fairly. What is fair? I know one thing - expecting them to be self-sufficient isn't fair when they are denied the exposure they need to sustain drawing power. As people internal to the process have explained to me, it was once understood that DCI would need to, and rightfully should, "subsidize" these corps in exchange for the privilege of giving world-class 98% of the prime-time exposure. That is not "welfare". These corps earned it. Open-class has "taken one for the team" again and again, and they deserve that consideration. Has this understanding withstood the test of time? Hard to say....but if it hasn't gotten through to people here, that's not a good sign. Now, Tom, I can go either way on this. If DCI wanted to serve only their member corps, and leave the rest of the activity to fend for itself (and refrain from activity-wide marketing claims), that would have been fine. If DCI wanted to be an activity-wide agency, and adopted appropriately inclusive policies in the process, that would have been fine too. But to market DCI on activity-wide promises while only delivering for the member corps....I wouldn't condone that. But, isn't really up to the drum corps audience to support the corps...be it World, Open or whatever Class? So far, the best audience evidence for Open Class seems to be in Michigan City. I'm waiting to hear the numbers from Bloomington on Saturday morning, but in 06 I went to one of the best Open Class finals I had seen in a long time...total in the house was less than 3K. However, there were well more than 20K "drum corps fans" in Madison...they just didn't get up for a noon show. Too bad for them? Yes. Too bad for Open Class? Yes as well. We've been down this road before. It's OUR fault. It's not DCI's and I will grant you...it's not the Open Class corps fault either. It's OUR fault. We don't try hard enough to support these corps. We don't put enough butts in seats to see them perform. We don't get to the shows and sit in the stands enough at the beginning of the shows....before BD, SCV, etc. get on the field. We spend too much time in the lots watching drumlines warmup and not enough time appreciating the talent of these corps. If we support Open Class in a bigger way...it sort of takes care of itself. It will be noticed that DCI has a more marketable product. I think offering exhibition spots to (in the area) Open Class corps at regionals is one more step in that direction. Doesn't this already happen for Revolution in San Antonio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kusankusho Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 AMEN! Totally agree. You don't go to the stands, then you get what you get. I watch battery warm ups in the lot. You get great drumming plus: No amps No narration No synthesizers (added non-attraction this year) I'm happier in the lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I watch battery warm ups in the lot. You get great drumming plus:No amps No narration No synthesizers (added non-attraction this year) I'm happier in the lot. Not sure about the narration part. I've heard some rathy pithy commentary from drum staff in the lots as they narrate the state of the ongoing "performance". As to synths and amps...if they use good ol' Dr. Beat they are using a synthesized metronome...and if they pipe it through the Long Ranger ist's amplified! Maybe that IS a reason to ban them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kusankusho Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Not sure about the narration part. I've heard some rathy pithy commentary from drum staff in the lots as they narrate the state of the ongoing "performance". As to synths and amps...if they use good ol' Dr. Beat they are using a synthesized metronome...and if they pipe it through the Long Ranger ist's amplified! Maybe that IS a reason to ban them! Both good points, but at least the "narration" is accoustic! Dr. Beat - I know all the reasons you need one and I've certainly used it (on both sides of the instructor/member divide) but I hate the #### things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Why not ? Sometimes the World Class corps have been put to shame, entertainment wise, by some of the OPEN CLASS corps. Remember, World Class used to be called OPEN CLASS at one point ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Both good points, but at least the "narration" is accoustic! Dr. Beat - I know all the reasons you need one and I've certainly used it (on both sides of the instructor/member divide) but I hate the #### things... I have used it less this fall with the band I teach than any recent season. We have too many tempo changes...both subito and gradual (going both ways, faster and slower) to make it work for an entire number. Not to mention, our tird number opens in 7/8 for an extended time, which also makes it hard to use...I am happy to say! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kusankusho Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 (edited) I have used it less this fall with the band I teach than any recent season. We have too many tempo changes...both subito and gradual (going both ways, faster and slower) to make it work for an entire number. Not to mention, our tird number opens in 7/8 for an extended time, which also makes it hard to use...I am happy to say! You can program this stuff to some degree, although I'm not sure about accel/decell or how many time/tempo changes you can have in any one program. I'm sure there are folks out there that could tell you. I'm also sure we're way OT now. Edited October 30, 2008 by kusankusho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 You can program this stuff to some degree, although I'm not sure about accel/decell or how many time/tempo changes you can have in any one program. I'm sure there are folks out there that could tell you.I'm also sure we're way OT now. True! And I'm not sure I want to know how to do that stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 well part of the problem is the open corps don't fight hard enough for themselves and allow themselves to be treated as second class.......and honestly, a few of them have better organizational structure than some big boys! can't believe this is ignored. gang, they let Open police open. they allow themselves to be treated second class. the question is why??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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