Kay Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 That's your opinion and I respect that. However, I've heard from enough people in the DCP forums that this is a very GOOD idea. The backlash on what is currently being labeled as "guard" sez that it's a good idea. I certainly think it is! Your poll does not support your statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelerand Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 I've only been to a couple of WGI shows, so I'm no expert on this. But from what I've seen, there is one issue that is always - without exception in any of the drills I've seen - the most problematic for a unit. That's getting their tarp on and off the floor. I volunteered for a show recently and was helping the units get to the floor. There was a unit that had to request space to actually refold their tarp before they went on the floor b/c if they didn't, there was going to be some sort of timing penalty b/c it would take them too long to do whatever they get penalized for. What about this: One tarp serves all. Put a plain tarp on the floor at the beginning of the show to protect the floor. All the units use it, and none of them have to carry around what usually ends up to be the bulkiest and hardest to manage piece of equipment they have. From what little I've seen, most shows would not lose anything by going with such a plain-tarp idea - the tarps are not adding to these shows anyway. Just a thought. --Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deftguy Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 What about this: One tarp serves all. Put a plain tarp on the floor at the beginning of the show to protect the floor. Andrew, jolly good idea. It was the way it use to be done. Tarps were used to protect the floor, but not to influence anyones show. Andrew I like the way you think, I know I have a twin, but was there really three of us?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBrancheau Posted May 6, 2003 Author Share Posted May 6, 2003 I'm all for cleanliness, uniformity, and precision ... and I generally prefer equipment work to dance, unless it's done very well and is very appropriate for the moment ... but that's a far cry from regressing the entire activity by two decades. Who sez that I want the activity to regress two decades?! Is cleanliness, uniformity and precision regressing the activity two decades? Is "outlawing" props, tarps and blatant costumes regressing the activity two decades? I don't think so...here's why: I think that choreographers are falling back on props, tarps and blatant costumes because they're not creative enough to pull off an idea without them. See, if they only had the equipment work and music to work with, they'd have to be pretty creative to emphasize and illustrate the music! b**bs Imagine that! How do you think the "guards of old" conveyed the music to audiences without props? Creative choreography! Sheesh! What a concept! If you want to call that regressing the activity, then YES...regress the activity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle50 Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 did you see Alliance of Miami's Hotel California? the tarps were an intricate piece of that show. they, by using & moving the tarps, by the color changes, etc. helped to give a whole level to that show that wouldn't have been there without them. some writers, instructors, choreographers might use tarps and props as a cover up but in some cases they are what helps to give the shows an additional level on which to perform it on. to eliminate them completely would be setting the activity back a couple of decades. IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deftguy Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 to eliminate them completely would be setting the activity back a couple of decades. Is this colorguard or tarpguard? If you got rid of the weapons I could see where you would have a problem. However, to say that getting rid of a tarp(a tarp gosh dang it) would set the whole activity back a couple of decades is really taking it way too far. Whatever happen to good intergrated movement and equipment work to interpret the music? WGI is becoming over reliant on creating external images that it has forgotten how to use the body and equipment to do the same job. I have said this time and time again, colorguard is looking more and more like high school drill teams of the early to middle 80's. some writers, instructors, choreographers might use tarps and props as a cover up but in some cases they are what helps to give the shows an additional level on which to perform it on. Why can't that same level be transferred to the equipment and integrated movement? did you see Alliance of Miami's Hotel California? the tarps were an intricate piece of that show. they, by using & moving the tarps, by the color changes, etc. helped to give a whole level to that show that wouldn't have been there without them. Couldn't a change of flag, or some VERY interesting equipment work and movement have done the same thing? This is my point, stuff is replacing great intergrated movement and equipment work. You put a tarp down and turn it, and you have 8 or 16 counts that you don't have to clean because there isn't much equipment work happening. Run behind a prop, great! Nothing to clean there! This reminds me of the arguements that are purveying the industry I work in. Too much CGI and not enough story development. Too manysound effects and not enough quality dialog. Too much props and tarps and not enough great unison work. Sometimes having TOO many tools is as dangerous as not having any at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle50 Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 in the show i was referring to they had members moving the tarp while another group was spinning weapons & flags. the group moving the tarps were really a non-issue. your concentration point was on the work being done. because it was being done cleanly, with all the ooos and aaaahhhs. what i'm saying is that it can be done. some groups use it as a reason to hide stuff (problems, create dead time, etc). others are out there doing absolutely great stuff with the tarps and the props, etc. why should they be penalized by not being allowed to be as creative as they possibly can, while still putting out a great final product? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deftguy Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 etc. why should they be penalized by not being allowed to be as creative as they possibly can, while still putting out a great final product? Why should a guard that does NOT want to use all of the crap get penalized?(and they do in this evironment). What I am saying is the pendulum has now swung too far to the left now. EVERY show has to incorporate all this crap or they get penalized to death with low scores. What I would like to see is guards with a variety of styles and ways to interpret a show. EVERYTHING is props, dance, costumes and everything else but the equipment. Those tools were supposed to be used to frame a show, not be the show. If I put together a guard today that truely emphasized integrated body,movement, and equipment work without gobs of dance, props and tarps it would be crucified before it could get its legs. This is no room for a variety of interpretations unless dance, props, and tarps are the center of that interpretation. This is not advancing colorguard IMO because there USED to be this kind of variety(guards that danced well, guards that spun well, trick guards, thematic guards, military guards all used to exist). Its all gone now and that is NOT an improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BennyASU Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 thats not true. Ive seen SEVERAL fantastic guard shows in the past few years that have had NO props of any kind. Did they have a tarp? Yes, but thats it. Besides that it was purely rifle, saber, flag, and dance only...and they all achieved to very high levels and were rewarded for it with their scores. Fantasia 2002...perfect example. They had a tarp with a bunch of eyes all over it. Thats it. No props, no nothing else, they didnt move the tarp, no gimmicks. However, the show was magnificently designed, and perfectly performed....combine those and boom, you get the 2nd highest score in WGI history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deftguy Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Benny, You can't make a point using the exception to the rule. You mentioned one guard, I have seen quite a few great spinning, extremely accurate, great movement and dance guards that were scored very poorly. because of the lack of visual jewelry. Many more than one I am afraid. I was turning out guards that were wickedly accurate, great equipment handling, very integrated movement and equipment books that were very hard but done very cleanly that weren't scoring well. Fantasia 2002 is definately the exception if they are as you describe. Whether you thinks its the truth or not is irrelevant to me, I KNOW what I have seen B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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