bass5 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 (edited) The joke I told for years was that to be a Madison Scouts instructor, one had to take vows in the Order of St Scott the Frugal. Those vows were chiefly poverty and obedience. A tradition incidentally he has transported to the Kilties which have shown some great improvements in his 2nd full year of his management. But what it did during Scotts years at the helm of Scouts was ensure the people he had around him did it for the love of the corps and activity, and that as we witnessed led to memorable years of drum corps excitement and a distinctive brand that people now still expect Scouts to live up to. The obvious effect was a teaching staff almost entirely made up of people from the ranks of marching members. But as we know the money was better elsewhere and people many times make the decision to go where the money is making Madison Scouts an integral part of the success of other DCI organizations where they not only took their skills but the corps philosophy they learned. To my way of thinking apart from the competitive and performance aspect of it, the Madison Scouts philosophy developed under Scott transformed the activity. So even when they dont win, they win.The question is had the management philosophy reached a point of diminishing returns in the modern DCI activity? Either way that style of management wont be back unless the whole activity changes nor do I think would Scott ever consent to be involved unless it did. The current group of guys is great and they are simply working their butts off until they create that certain alchemy which is the Madison Scouts. Great points Dan, For years the Scouts were a training ground for many many successful instructors who moved on so they could pay the bills. I heard a story of Scott asking the board for a raise once in the 90's, from 10K a year to 11K! Saint Scott The Frugal indeed. Remember he was the director and the Exec. director. Those days are gone now and its time to move on. The Scouts have by no means "lost their identity" as some experts in this thread suggest. The people running this operation all all dedicated Scouts alumni who are doing their best to make sure the Scouts are around for another 70 years. There are a lot of Scouts alumni spouting off on DCP who maybe should get their buts away from the computer and do what they can to help the Scouts during camps, tour or whatever. If the Scouts mean something to you do something to help and stop whining about what you think is wrong. It was great seeing the Kilts in Madison Dan, drum corps is Scott's calling in life and I'm happy to see he's back where he belongs. Edited July 13, 2009 by bass5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vferrera Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 On another note, the Scouts easily have the worst web site of any of the World Class Drum Corps. Actually, they have the best website 1. It looks great 2. It is easy for current and prospective members to find the information they need 3. It is easy for fans to find information about the program 4. It has full information about the Scouts BOD, management team, and instructional staff 5. It has full information about fundraising activities. 6. It is easy to find the DONATE button. In short, Scouts website is the most transparent and easiest to navigate of ANY DCI corps. You're concerned about the pictures? Hit the donations a few times, I'm sure they'll send you all the pics you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jerk Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I think a lot of people need to lighten up and actually support the corps and the activity. Discussion is one thing, but continuously criticizing the corps for something again and again doesn't help anyone. If the only thing you have to say is how their staff is inadequate and unskilled send them some money to hire better staff or get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jerk Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Go Scouts! POW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass5 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I think a lot of people need to lighten up and actually support the corps and the activity. Discussion is one thing, but continuously criticizing the corps for something again and again doesn't help anyone. If the only thing you have to say is how their staff is inadequate and unskilled send them some money to hire better staff or get over it. Pretty insightful stuff for someone called The Jerk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouts Pit Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 i generally try not to poke into this fray, too much... ...but as all these cyclical arguments are still going on, my three cents: First: yes, while i'm sure the Scouts are dirty, visually, it's important to remember that a big part of scores, still, is 'politics.' we all know Scott became somewhat of a pariah, in his day, and that DCI is still somewhat loathe to throw points our way. i am not in any way saying that that's the sole reason for everything going on right now, and, having not seen a second of live corps, this summer, would be especially silly, were i to try to. however, it's important to keep in mind that, after Scott was ushered out, Sal hired a batch of big names, like DCI darling Cesario, and played the game beautifully. is this *the* reason they did well? of course not. was it *part* of why they did so well? of course! just how big is obviously a source of debate, and i won't even go there. the reason i'm bringing this up is that it was common knowledge, after Sal's contract wasn't renewed, that these dci-friendly folk walked, and a number of Older school alums, including many from the Scott Stewart years, were taking the helm of the corps again. as such, i was 0% surprised they were removed from finals, despite my strong feeling (generally backed up by even my most stalwart Scout-hating corps friends) that they had a solid 9-12th place show, by the beginning of August. i predicted it long before all the drama that happened in the preseason. i'm thrilled that they made finals, last year, and i hope they do again, but it's already an uphill battle for them, it sounds like, just from a show/performance level, and the slippery slimy political world is not going to make the climb any easier. now the segue here is two-pronged; first the bad: most of the high-up guys on the staff right now (Dann, Jeff, etc.) were on the field with the Scouts throughout the early to mid 90s, which was the period where we were at the highest level of flipping off DCI/the judges/(*whispers "politics"*), and it is highly unlikely that DCI/the powers that be/etc. have forgotten... and while i don't think this would stop a worthy Madison corps from returning to the top-6, it *is* in my opinion, still enough to keep a decent 9-12th place Madison corps at 13th. i hope it doesn't, again, but if it does, let's remember that not 100% of this is on the current staff, whom some you guys are so maligning. the good?: most of the high-up guys on the staff right now (Dann, Jeff, etc.) were on the field with the Scouts throughout the early to mid 90s, which was the period where we were at the highest level of, in my opinion, kicking ###. i know Jeff and Dann, from two years of touring under their instruction, and i can't tell you the enormous amount of faith i have in them to take the viable, inspirational elements of the Scott Stewart 'philosophy,' and combine them with a functional approach to 'playing the game,' to guide this corps in the right direction. these are brilliant guys, who are more committed to improving and sustaining this corps than anyone i can imagine. the folks who weren't 90s Scouts, in the administration, tend to be 80s Scouts. they all remember what it was like. i, personally, would love to see them basically squish everything that made the '95-'99 Scouts so amazing into a different show every year... would that be practicable? doubtful. the activity...sigh...changes. i feel like the current Scouts are doing well, as far as amping and all that goes, to play the 'evolution' game... but i also feel like they're turning out soundbitey, disjunct shows that are the antithesis of everything we stood for, from a programming standpoint, back in the day. i hope they continue searching for a middle point. it seems like they're getting closer, but again... i haven't seen the show live, yet. staff-wise, on the percussive side, all my favorite drumlines in (semi-recent) corps have hailed from Concord. you can all read up on Roger on the Scouts' page, if you haven't already, but Jeff hired the right guy for this job. it's a tough conversion to west-coast style drumming, and i have no reference for this year's line, but what i saw last year impressed me a lot, and in a year or possibly two (i'd *hoped* it'd be this year), i think Madison will have an utterly formidable drumline, under Roger. guard? dunno... but it seems they're headed the right way, so i'm thinking positive there. again, may take a year or two. reports from brassland seem to be generally good, so i'm encouraged there too... now, as far as Ramiro goes, i think he was a brilliant hire, based on the amazing BD shows he put together, but i'm not sure his concepts are working for Madison. i've always loved the way BD both played the game politically, and still took the field with their distinctive swagger. i miss ours. it's a huge part of what brought me here, and i've never really felt it was there, since Scott left - but i DO strongly feel that Jeff and Dann are the guys to help our guys regain it. i think that the shorter season (we played the appleton show on what, like june 11th? am i old and distorting things?) is hurting, from a development standpoint, and i think that the planned re-write of the closer is asinine, particularly with that in mind. hopefully Ramiro is self-aware enough to maybe re-evaluate this for next year, if he's still around. i, like anyone, would like to see the 90's unis back, although i did like last year's incarnation... they've been talking about switching back to white pants in another year or two, as i recall, once they feel the cleanliness level is back where it needs to be. hopefully they get the shade of green and the sash right, as well ;) ...and put the Aussies back on the pit(!)... such a huge part of our identity. but i ramble... anyway... now that i've turned out a post as random and soundbitey as all the shows i typically dislike... i take my leave. but don't turn your back on this staff, or throw them under the bus(ses). i can't speak for the individual techs, and the like, but the men in charge are the right ones. MYNWA (Go Scouts!), and such. -jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbandguy Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Sal hired a batch of big names, like DCI darling Cesario, and played the game beautifully. is this *the* reason they did well? of course not. was it *part* of why they did so well? of course! To claim that hiring Cesario was for political reasons and those political reasons played a role in the Scouts success during those years is indeed a slam on the hard work of the members and the creativity and ability of the staff in those years. It is especially a slam on the great staff members that Sal kept from the Stewart years. (Such as Scott Boerma.) Did you ever consider that maybe Cesario was elected to the DCI Hall of Fame because of his actual contributions to the activity? Is it possible he also contributed to the Madison Scouts? The success of the Scouts in '03-'06 was due to the PRODUCT on the field, just as the success of the Scouts during the Stewart years was due to the PRODUCT on the field! If politics is playing such a role in the state of the Scouts in '07 and '09, what role did it play in '08? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 i generally try not to poke into this fray, too much......but as all these cyclical arguments are still going on, my three cents: First: yes, while i'm sure the Scouts are dirty, visually, it's important to remember that a big part of scores, still, is 'politics.' we all know Scott became somewhat of a pariah, in his day, and that DCI is still somewhat loathe to throw points our way. i am not in any way saying that that's the sole reason for everything going on right now, and, having not seen a second of live corps, this summer, would be especially silly, were i to try to. however, it's important to keep in mind that, after Scott was ushered out, Sal hired a batch of big names, like DCI darling Cesario, and played the game beautifully. is this *the* reason they did well? of course not. was it *part* of why they did so well? of course! just how big is obviously a source of debate, and i won't even go there. the reason i'm bringing this up is that it was common knowledge, after Sal's contract wasn't renewed, that these dci-friendly folk walked, and a number of Older school alums, including many from the Scott Stewart years, were taking the helm of the corps again. as such, i was 0% surprised they were removed from finals, despite my strong feeling (generally backed up by even my most stalwart Scout-hating corps friends) that they had a solid 9-12th place show, by the beginning of August. i predicted it long before all the drama that happened in the preseason. i'm thrilled that they made finals, last year, and i hope they do again, but it's already an uphill battle for them, it sounds like, just from a show/performance level, and the slippery slimy political world is not going to make the climb any easier. -jon Hmmm......... I think you need to see the product this year. It's not a 9-12th place show being relegated to 13th. Politics isn't the problem here. I love the Scouts and it just is hard to watch the show this year. As so many have said, after the opener.....it's a WTF is going on out there moment for the rest of the show - bad staging, bad visual, dirt, ugh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutsSop 95-96 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Just to play "devil's advocate" here: I heard this opinion at the Colorado show. What's your opinion? As an Alumnus, it pains me a bit to say that there are parts I must agree with: You will see a ton of people on these forums who become very offended by criticism. They say that "we need to lift up the corps and not tear them down" or my favorite is the fear that these kids might read this and become deflated. It seems that because some participants are under 18 that they become sacred cows and the corps are now "untouchable". Let’s not forget that DCI is a competitive organization who boasts the title "marching music's MAJOR LEAGUE". Any major league needs critics! Now very seldom do I ever see people attacking the individual corps members but the leadership definitely needs to be under fire! During the 90's there was obviously a divide between the Corps and the judges. Tearing up tapes in the parking lot speaks for itself. While the Scouts have always been about pleasing the crowd 1st.....this is the time it took on its greatest meaning. So was it really the smartest move to hire a director who led the charge (as a senior corps member) against the judges in the 90's? When are we allowed to call for a change? Why is it taboo to say what's obvious - The leadership has taken us backwards! Just being an alumnus doesn't produce positive results. The Scouts need to hold on to tradition - ALWAYS! But it has never been the Scouts tradition to accept mediocrity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victrussell Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I think a lot of people need to lighten up and actually support the corps and the activity. Discussion is one thing, but continuously criticizing the corps for something again and again doesn't help anyone. If the only thing you have to say is how their staff is inadequate and unskilled send them some money to hire better staff or get over it. This is an excellent comment! I wonder how many of the posters who are pontificating about what the Scouts could have done or should be doing are putting their money where their mouths are. Vic Russell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts