whitedawn Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 if you are missing 12/150, isn't it objectively true that 9% of the performers are not in the form? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Well you have a child there. You probably would know better than we would. Where DID they have the holes? Or maybe someone who was actually at the show can give us an idea? I'm not trying to sound like Crown's win wasn't deserved. I wasn't at the show so I can't tell you either way, but I do find the scores last night rather curious. Maybe I've not been in drum corps long enough, but I can't understand how these scores are the way they are, all the way down to Blue Stars. I just need some clarification on how this happens. Sorry . DCP last thing on my mind when I talked to her !! Maybe someone in the audience counted (although there were *not* a lot of tweets or updates from the show) and no reviews posted on the review board. Sorry no inside info on this. As for the results, all I can say that's the nature of the activity. Eight people gave their opinions and that's how it ended up. You can agree or disagree but those folks have the green shirts and get to make the call. If there are people who think they can do it better, I'm sure DCI is always searching for judges!! Just about impossible to say much more unless you were there. All this arm-chair judging is just a way to pass the time while we all wish we could be at the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 (edited) If you can name a World Class Corps in DCI that went into competition in July with 12 holes, that 5 days earlier were filled, I'd like to know who that might have been and what year. If we find such a Corps ( we won't) we can then look to see if that Corps had every one of their judged captions go up the first time they went out with those 12 holes and if there was a SPREAD INCREASE over the 2nd place, 3rd place Corps when they performed with those 12 holes in line in the competition . And we can see if the show 5 days earlier when they had no holes in their line, got them a lower score and a lower spread between them and the mix of Corps they had just competed with.If Corps can increase their scores and get a bump in the spread over their immediate competitors by going out with 12 holes, then just imagine the benefit that a Corps could have received had they gone out with ( say ) 24 holes. I know it's an absurd thing to say. But no more absurd than the inability for a plausable explanation to a health weakened Corps with 12 holes getting scores like this. OOOHHHHHHHH... so you DON'T have research data we can all consult independently. And now you want ME to go do it for you !! LOL. You ARE entertaining Brasso. You also get cause and effect really mixed up. Not a single person here (except you) has said that "HOLES CAUSE SCORES TO RISE" or for that matter "FALLS MAKE YOUR SCORE GO UP". You're just really mixed up about correlation and causation. I suggest you read this. Edited July 15, 2009 by corpsband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.morgus Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 (edited) Having finally managed to see one live, I have to say that the this one was about right. From where I sat, it looked like every one had a few holes. Is the number of holes the truely important issue, or is it more to the point how well you sell your show regardless of the holes? Both of these performances were very, very good. Crown, IMO, was slightly cleaner, and more controlled pretty much across the board, especially musically. As far as visual GE, which seems to be the point of contention in this thread, I don't think 2 tenths of a point in Crowns favor was an exagerated spread. Edited July 15, 2009 by j.morgus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 if you are missing 12/150, isn't it objectively true that 9% of the performers are not in the form? Pit players are not in the form! Depending on the staging guard holes are sometimes not obvious -- certainly they're not as obvious as a hole in the brass or battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanoftheGame Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Like I said earlier, the spread of the scores is relative to the judges that night. I realize they are all trained and you have confidence in them (as do I) but who's to say the spread would not have been 2 points in the show 5 days ago had this panel been there. Then the 1.5 spread last night looks like it does reflect the sickness/holes that Crown experienced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourouttheforty Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 The panel was different and was so noted in my remarks above as well.Both the panel's are trained properly in the fundamentals of GE Visual. I'm very confident of that. For instance, a Visual Pattern in the show that is not completed is easily recognized by the GE Visual Judge. Carolina Crown is a terrific Corps, but like any Corps with 12 holes it is impossible for them to complete the visual movement as drawn up by the Visual Design staff. The fact that 12 holes in line would provide a better GE Visual score and SPREAD INCREASE over the competing Corps from 5 days earlier when they had those holes filled with performers is certainly perplexing, if not impossible. Any Visual judge at DCI knows what a completed and a non completed visual movement looks like..... and especially, the GE Visual judge. Again, judges aren't ########. They can figure out what's a hole and what is bad space. Holes in the form do not necessarily make the form unreadable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 What's really going here? After all its just another show..... I think a LOT of people were thinking: (A) Crown's sick, probably not rehearsing well and they're marching holes (B) Cadets have been closing the margin THEREFORE I fully expect HNC to overtake CC tonight. When people's expectation are not met, they get upset about it. When they're upset they complain on DCP (for 267 posts and counting!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver_King Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Again, judges aren't ########. are you sure glad to be apart of this discussion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver_King Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 What's really going here? After all its just another show.....I think a LOT of people were thinking: (A) Crown's sick, probably not rehearsing well and they're marching holes (B) Cadets have been closing the margin THEREFORE I fully expect HNC to overtake CC tonight. When people's expectation are not met, they get upset about it. When they're upset they complain on DCP (for 267 posts and counting!) not all 267 are complaining maybe half Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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