2000Cadet Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Wow. What the hell did I miss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crown fan Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 I'm really sorry, but this post shows that you don't really understand the judging process or the purpose of judging at DCI shows.1. Saying that scores can't go up because of whatever reason makes it seem like you think all DCI judges are robots with the same brain and the numbers they give out are cold hard exact un-negotiable facts with no room for argument. Crown could have had a much worse show and seen a three point improvement.... maybe the judges were just generally handing out higher numbers... we're still talking about the same box on the sheets... not like it's a 20 point difference. 2. It is entirely possible to be really effective even with some holes... remember... GE visual is more than just drill... and tons of what Crown does visually is not drill and does not require every member to be there to pull off the effect. As far as the visual performance captions... if they are truly judging performance then they will do just that.... judge how well the performers who were on the field performed, not the ones who weren't there. 3. In the practical sense, a judge's main purpose at this point in the season is to help all the corps reach their full potential. How is a judge going to help the corps by docking them a whole bunch of point for having holes? If the judges want to give accurate feedback regarding their GE Vis., they need to be focusing on what the corps can actually do to improve the show beyond the obvious (fill in the holes). The judges know there are holes, the corps knows there are holes... they move on.... it's not a big deal. FTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver_King Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Wow. What the hell did I miss? a party if you are a cadet or crown homer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Perhaps contacting DCI could answer all of your questions....Drum Corps International P.O. Box 3129 Indianapolis, IN 46206 Tel: 317.275.1212 Fax: 317.713.0690 Oh sure, we can all go that route whenever we have a question. You sound like a guy that goes there all the time to find the answers to all your questions. I was curious, how responsive have they been when you've gone there with ( say ) your judging questions, Crown Swagger ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anniem Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 I don't know what's up with this , nor how to account for it. I'm looking for plausable explanations under the current judging sheets, but I'm drawing a blank.How do you account for it ? Well, a couple pages ago I suggested the following. Is comparing the scoring of a performance at one show to the next "apples to apples" or is it at least a little "apples to oranges"? Different judges, plenty of time to add new material and clean (despite illness)? BTW, I'm not sure there ended up being as many as 12 holes.... Prior to the July 9 show they were already working on changing parts of the show but did not perform those changes at the July 9 show. Despite illness I believe they did put some of those changes they had already learned prior to the July 9 show into the July 14 show. Therefore, the two shows were not identical (nor were the judges as previously mentioned). Although there were many sick kids over the course of several days I think the ones that were available were not going at practice half ###ed so I'm sure that they continued to improve rather than stagnate for 6 days. Again, I'm not sure there were actually 12 holes at showtime. So I tried to offer some suggestions... But you shut me down with your seemingly inside knowlege that they had no opportunity to add or clean... Sounds like it could be the answer..... but with further scrutiny we learn that Crown had no such opportunity to " add new material " between their last show on July 9th and last night, and had " no opportunity to clean ". According to their Director, at practice they had 25 holes at each practice and that when one weakened member returned to practice, another member was lost to the sickness. Thus it is impossible to conduct routine practice or change routines or clean in such a stage of systemic Corps sickness. Also, Crown unfortunately had to pull out of a show, while the healthy Corps practiced, cleaned and competed as usual...... but lost some ground to Crown nonetheless in these 5 days. But I'm just a Crown parent so other than talking to my sick kid I don't know nothing. And shame on me for biting on this again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crown Swagger Dad Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Oh sure, we can all go that route whenever we have a question. You sound like a guy that goes there all the time to find the answers to all your questions. I was curious, how responsive have they been when you've gone there with ( say ) your judging questions, Crown Swagger ? I haven't posted any questions. That means I don't have any at the moment. Just trying to help out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 (edited) I dont think this has really been a HNC v CC discussion. I think it's more about "how do judges come to their numbers". WAY too many people believe there are "deductions" in build up scoring. Member fall? Lose a tenth. Marching a hole? Lose 2 tenths. Tez's response is right on target. The only thing I'd add to it is , in the end, the number is just someone's opinion. It's not any sort of mechanical objective measurement of how "good" a performance truly is. So shrug it off and do what you do. IMHO Brasso clearly has a theory about why CC beat HNC but he doesn't want to say it out loud. FWIW I was very surprised with the show results given everything I'd heard going into the show. But there are lots variables that go into a performance -- some of them that maybe even the staff doesn't understand. Things click and the momentum builds and suddenly it's "where did THAT come from". Edited July 15, 2009 by corpsband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_S Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 And shame on me for biting on this again... That's the true moral of the story, I think. If he were looking for an answer to his question, BRASSO would have found it by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feathers Up Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Wow. What the hell did I miss? A lot of overreaction. That's about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dans Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Well, if you'd like to try and explain from your understanding of the judging system how a Corps with 12 holes can have all their visual scores go up from their previous show performance...... and...... increase their overall spread on the other Corps with half the Corps in sick bay in the interim 5 days, while the other Corps had no sickness of quite the same degree and no holes ( or maybe 1)....... then I'd be more than happy to listen to your explanation.Would you be kind enough to explain how this is possible ? I'm ( and I'm sure a few others ) are all ears...... seriously. I have not followed this entire thread, however, I do feel you have asked some questions that need to be asked. I do find it rather curious that a corps the caliber of the Cadets fell further behind Crown last evening. Cadets were coming off of a big stretch of intense rehearsal days. It seems odd that any corps could make significant improvement with the conditions Crown was dealing with recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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