BRASSO Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 (edited) No, it's not impossible. Clearly it can happen, because we saw it happen last night. Your continued insistence that the numbers are illegitimate - as someone who was not at either show and as someone with (presumably) no judging experience - indicates a lack of understanding of the judging process, rather than a flaw in the judging that took place. Well, if you'd like to try and explain from your understanding of the judging system how a Corps with 12 holes can have all their visual scores go up from their previous show performance...... and...... increase their overall spread on the other Corps with half the Corps in sick bay in the interim 5 days, while the other Corps had no sickness of quite the same degree and no holes ( or maybe 1)....... then I'd be more than happy to listen to your explanation. Would you be kind enough to explain how this is possible ? I'm ( and I'm sure a few others ) are all ears...... seriously. Edited July 15, 2009 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris ncsu Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Well, if you'd like to try and explain from your understanding of the judging system how a Corps with 12 holes can have all their visual scores go up from their previous show performance...... and...... increase their overall spread on the other Corps with half the Corps in sick bay in the interim 5 days, while the other Corps had no sickness of quite the same degree....... then I'd be more than happy to listen to your explanation.Would you be kind enough to explain how this is possible ? I'm all ears...... seriously. Don't bite, y'all. Like a brick wall. No disrespect, Brasso, but it's really not possible to argue with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crown Swagger Dad Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Well, if you'd like to try and explain from your understanding of the judging system how a Corps with 12 holes can have all their visual scores go up from their previous show performance...... and...... increase their overall spread on the other Corps with half the Corps in sick bay in the interim 5 days, while the other Corps had no sickness of quite the same degree....... then I'd be more than happy to listen to your explanation.Would you be kind enough to explain how this is possible ? I'm all ears...... seriously. Perhaps contacting DCI could answer all of your questions.... Drum Corps International P.O. Box 3129 Indianapolis, IN 46206 Tel: 317.275.1212 Fax: 317.713.0690 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tez Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Without being redundant here, I'll grant that it's entirely possible for Crown with 12 members on the sidelines to come out smokin and " were hot " last night .But it's still impossible( my opinion) for a Corps with 12 members missing and thus creating visual holes in all the visual patterns to have all their Visual Scores, particularly GE Visual, go up over their previous show where there were no members out, and thus no holes in those visual patterns created. Even if we factor in a different judge panel, it's impossible to get these Visual score improvements with such holes, and with many of the ones who marched less than 48 hours removed from sick bay. Those Visual scores needed to come down, and certainly not up as a result of a dozen or so marchers out from their previous show. A well crafted Visual design is meaningless if the design move was not fulfilled... for any reason, ie failure of members to execute the move properly, or as a result of holes out on the competitive performance field. One need not be a judge either to understand this most basic of fundametals in show design. The Visual Design REQUIRES the planned design formation to have been successfully completed in the show performance to get the full credit in the visual captions.. And with Carolina Crown with 12 holes, as sympathetic as we all are to their plight, it became impossible for them to have completed the Visual Designs as drawn up. This is not rocket science here, follks. I'm really sorry, but this post shows that you don't really understand the judging process or the purpose of judging at DCI shows. 1. Saying that scores can't go up because of whatever reason makes it seem like you think all DCI judges are robots with the same brain and the numbers they give out are cold hard exact un-negotiable facts with no room for argument. Crown could have had a much worse show and seen a three point improvement.... maybe the judges were just generally handing out higher numbers... we're still talking about the same box on the sheets... not like it's a 20 point difference. 2. It is entirely possible to be really effective even with some holes... remember... GE visual is more than just drill... and tons of what Crown does visually is not drill and does not require every member to be there to pull off the effect. As far as the visual performance captions... if they are truly judging performance then they will do just that.... judge how well the performers who were on the field performed, not the ones who weren't there. 3. In the practical sense, a judge's main purpose at this point in the season is to help all the corps reach their full potential. How is a judge going to help the corps by docking them a whole bunch of point for having holes? If the judges want to give accurate feedback regarding their GE Vis., they need to be focusing on what the corps can actually do to improve the show beyond the obvious (fill in the holes). The judges know there are holes, the corps knows there are holes... they move on.... it's not a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 (edited) Don't bite, y'all. Like a brick wall. No disrespect, Brasso, but it's really not possible to argue with you. Hey, man... if you don't have a clue on this stuff, no problem. Just enjoy the shows, ok ? But I'm not attempting to " argue " with anyone, nor " antagonize " anyone as some other poster said above. If these questions make you or others uncomfortable, or whatever, just don't take it personal, all right ? Just find another thread that's filled with maybe more light and sunshine I'm just posing some serious questions that should be raised in my opinion. And I was looking for some responses from thinking people as to what they thought..... no more, no less..... and no hostile vibes are forthcoming from me, compadre., and no argument is sought. Edited July 15, 2009 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tez Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Well, if you'd like to try and explain from your understanding of the judging system how a Corps with 12 holes can have all their visual scores go up from their previous show performance...... and...... increase their overall spread on the other Corps with half the Corps in sick bay in the interim 5 days, while the other Corps had no sickness of quite the same degree and no holes ( or maybe 1)....... then I'd be more than happy to listen to your explanation.Would you be kind enough to explain how this is possible ? I'm ( and I'm sure a few others ) are all ears...... seriously. BRASSO.... Let's turn this thing around. What do you think is going on here? Do you really believe the judges are idiots? Do you think they are giving Crown special treatment? Do you think if other corps had that many holes they would receive much lower scores? You won't accept any of the answers we have regarding you question stated above, so what's your theory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver_King Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 If we were all DCI judges on here, everyones favorite corps would be in the 50's score wise in the middle of July, because of the person next to them not liking their neighbors corps. my neighbor likes my corps so they will be higher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris ncsu Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Hey, man... if you don't have a clue on this stuff, no problem. Just enjoy the shows, ok ? But I'm not attempting to " argue " with anyone, nor " antagonize " anyone as some other poster said above. If these questions make you or others uncomfortable, or whatever, just don't take it personal, all right ? Just find another thread that's filled with maybe more light and sunshineI'm just posing some serious questions that should be raised in my opinion. And I was looking for some responses from thinking people as to what they thought..... no more, no less..... and no hostile vibes are forthcoming from me, compadre., and no argument is sought. Si. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 BRASSO....Let's turn this thing around. What do you think is going on here? Do you really believe the judges are idiots? Do you think they are giving Crown special treatment? Do you think if other corps had that many holes they would receive much lower scores? You won't accept any of the answers we have regarding you question stated above, so what's your theory? I don't know what's up with this , nor how to account for it. I'm looking for plausable explanations under the current judging sheets, but I'm drawing a blank. How do you account for it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tez Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 I don't know what's up with this , nor how to account for it. I'm looking for plausable explanations under the current judging sheets, but I'm drawing a blank.How do you account for it ? See my above post: 1. Saying that scores can't go up because of whatever reason makes it seem like you think all DCI judges are robots with the same brain and the numbers they give out are cold hard exact un-negotiable facts with no room for argument. Crown could have had a much worse show and seen a three point improvement.... maybe the judges were just generally handing out higher numbers... we're still talking about the same box on the sheets... not like it's a 20 point difference.2. It is entirely possible to be really effective even with some holes... remember... GE visual is more than just drill... and tons of what Crown does visually is not drill and does not require every member to be there to pull off the effect. As far as the visual performance captions... if they are truly judging performance then they will do just that.... judge how well the performers who were on the field performed, not the ones who weren't there. 3. In the practical sense, a judge's main purpose at this point in the season is to help all the corps reach their full potential. How is a judge going to help the corps by docking them a whole bunch of point for having holes? If the judges want to give accurate feedback regarding their GE Vis., they need to be focusing on what the corps can actually do to improve the show beyond the obvious (fill in the holes). The judges know there are holes, the corps knows there are holes... they move on.... it's not a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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