Historical Druming style

[RickCogley]

I saw Frank break down the roll and other rudiments in Quincy, IL in about '73. He gave a clinic for us. Unreal. I was blown away. I have a recording of him playing the rudiments somewhere. Marty Hurley and Dennis DeLucia are power guys also. Both students of Bobby Thompson I believe.

I see you were in the Regiment Alumni line this year. That must have been a blast! What was that like!?

[Kevlar496]

I see you were in the Regiment Alumni line this year. That must have been a blast! What was that like!?

It was much more fun than I thought it would be. I'm a band director and still play quite a bit, so I was in pretty good shape. But playing along with my students is not the same as playing next to Dr. John Wooton. The chops weren't the issue as much as memorizing music again. I hadn't done much of that the past 12 years.

We had 13 snares, 5 tenors and 5 basses. Some as old as me through guys that marched in the early to mid 90's. We mixed in with the current drum line for the encore in Hattiesburg which was an awesome experience. Those young guys can really play and were rock solid. They played one of Marty's old cadences with us and we did 1812 with the full corps. What a rush to play with that incredible horn line. They also played Elsa's with us still mixed in, which was weird, but very cool. What a great bunch of kids and what a great attitude they had about doing this with us. We rehearsed with them for about an hour earlier in the day and they were very cool to be around. I felt 21 again. Then the next day I felt 84 instead of 48.

I think we will do it again next year and hope to include keyboards, brass and maybe even color guard. I can't wait to get that drum on and play some more. We are already planning what we are going to play. What can I say. Men never grow up, we just grow old.

Did you not do the alumni thing with 27 back in '94? I saw that on the simulcast and loved it. I was a big fan of 27, even when I marched PR. Didn't like losing to you guys very much, but always thought they were great. Hated to see them leave the activity.

Kevin

[cookie]

As a Bugler, I'm enjoying the comments about the sticking techniques.

One of the best was John Dowlan. I was in the USAF Drum Corps in the mid 50's when Sgt. Dowlan put together a dynamite drum line which already was darn good before he came on board. It was he who "invented " the back sticking routines and I was a fortunate witness to watch our guys start to pick up this now copied world wide style. John's reason for getting this going was that he was making sure he could get both wrists to as equal strength as possible and he rolled the sticks in his hand, then started doing it on the drum head.

This was in the 50's and it was animal skin back then in the beginning. The drummers were really elated when the synthetic stuff came along.........no more rainy parades with half the line out of comission.

Some of the guys I was forunate to have set the percussion performance standard for me [i was a French Horn Bugler] were Rod Goodhart, Dick Filkens, Tom Bitner, John Flowers, John Bosworth, Bob Zarfoss and later , after I got out, Eric Landis, Bill Mojica, Steve Young and a lot more that slip my mind, easy to do these days.

Our guys used to head up to the famous Deep River Muster and just come back elated at both the new beers they tried as well as the new friends they met from the Ancient and Colonial style drumming. I wish some of these young drummers could actually hear the great sound of a full line of well made rope drums. Will knock their socks off!

Of course there's the Baltimore group of fine drummers like Buck Soistman, etc. who made their own.

Finally, regarding the Swiss style drumming, I hope everybody has viewed the You Tube of the Swiss Drum Corps "Top Secret" who are taught partially by John Bosworth [mentioned above]. John also is the originator of the "American Originals" from the DC area, an excellent Fife & Drum Corps which gets standing "O's at most Drum Corps shows and parades where they perform.

John would be a great source of knowledge in both the Swiss and other international drumming styles. He is now on current assignment in the country of OMAN as the guest of the Sultan while he teaches a new drum line for the Omani Army.

Enjoy the thread,

[Quadman1]

As a Bugler, I'm enjoying the comments about the sticking techniques.

One of the best was John Dowlan. I was in the USAF Drum Corps in the mid 50's when Sgt. Dowlan put together a dynamite drum line which already was darn good before he came on board. It was he who "invented " the back sticking routines and I was a fortunate witness to watch our guys start to pick up this now copied world wide style. John's reason for getting this going was that he was making sure he could get both wrists to as equal strength as possible and he rolled the sticks in his hand, then started doing it on the drum head.

This was in the 50's and it was animal skin back then in the beginning. The drummers were really elated when the synthetic stuff came along.........no more rainy parades with half the line out of comission.

Some of the guys I was forunate to have set the percussion performance standard for me [i was a French Horn Bugler] were Rod Goodhart, Dick Filkens, Tom Bitner, John Flowers, John Bosworth, Bob Zarfoss and later , after I got out, Eric Landis, Bill Mojica, Steve Young and a lot more that slip my mind, easy to do these days.

Our guys used to head up to the famous Deep River Muster and just come back elated at both the new beers they tried as well as the new friends they met from the Ancient and Colonial style drumming. I wish some of these young drummers could actually hear the great sound of a full line of well made rope drums. Will knock their socks off!

Of course there's the Baltimore group of fine drummers like Buck Soistman, etc. who made their own.

Finally, regarding the Swiss style drumming, I hope everybody has viewed the You Tube of the Swiss Drum Corps "Top Secret" who are taught partially by John Bosworth [mentioned above]. John also is the originator of the "American Originals" from the DC area, an excellent Fife & Drum Corps which gets standing "O's at most Drum Corps shows and parades where they perform.

John would be a great source of knowledge in both the Swiss and other international drumming styles. He is now on current assignment in the country of OMAN as the guest of the Sultan while he teaches a new drum line for the Omani Army.

Enjoy the thread,

Nice to hear Rod Goodhart mentioned in your post. In my opinion, he was the greatest drumming judge I have known in the activity. When you played clean and musically, he gave you props. But if you were dirty or played without control or dynamics, he was tough! One of the very talented guys to come through the Air Force Drum & Bugle Corps (along with, I believe, Bosworth and Flowers).

[Quadman1]

"Connecticut style" snare drumming is characterized by higher attacks, more arm movement both in the forearms (vertically) and elbows (horizontally) and arms out from the body. It was generally contrasted with "New York Style" which is arms closer in to the body, beads and strokes closer to the head, lower strokes. Connecticut style looks great in a parade. These styles were popular in the 1930s, 40s, 50s. You can see the styles reflected a little in the styles of today, but, noone's really doing Connecticut exactly.

Neither of these is much like swiss style drumming. I can't play it but I've seen swiss up close, and that technique is not like what I learned in US rudimental drumming. The left hand thumb is kind of laying down on the stick. There are some incredible players of that technique, though. It would take a few years for a good DCI rudimentalist to get really good at swiss style, I think, if they really were faithful to the technique.

When I marched in the early 80s, there were definite style differences. 27th was matched grip, low strokes with wrist, and an open feel between roll attack and the first left hand. This contrasted with a more "mathematical" approach to rolls from SCV and BD. They would attack and there was a gap between the leading accent of the roll, and the first left hand. We used to call them "east coast" rolls vs "west coast" rolls. Bridgemen were definitely "east coast" - loose sounding, but obviously great and aggressive too. Regiment had a very particular style, with the left pinky in traditional grip curled up tightly, and a very "stroked" sound. They also had those cut-away snares, so they were loud and exposed. You used to be able to tell the lines apart just by hearing them play. A distinct sound.

Recently, there had been a bit of a homogenization of styles (maybe driven a bit by kevlar's hardness), which was a little disappointing to me. However, I am pleased to say that there are now several pretty distinct (snare) styles out there. I was thrilled to see SCV's "push-pull" exercise this year - check it out if you can find it. That's some awesome technique, and those guys are lucky to be in that program! Also check Regiment and BD. Rennick's Regiment is definitely a proponent of a relaxed type of style. They seem to be all about keeping the hands loose, and to me they look like they vary between an orchestral approach and a very aggressive, high-stick approach to the drum. BD's playing is also aggressive this year, with what I'd call a tighter more wristed stroke. BD has often been about playing balls-out loud and aggressive, but this year they have superior skill I believe.

Rick - This is a great post! The variety of styles and sounds across the top corps when we marched was wonderful. SCV under Fred Sanford, Ralph Hardimon, and Curt Moore really perfected the "tap space double" style, which had the effect of sounding like the "meat" of the 6 and 7-stroke rolls was accelerated, when if fact it was mathematically correct. My own favorite all-time drum line was the '79 Vanguard, in which every segment of the line was #1 that year. Etobicoke, Spirit, and BD under Tom Float also played the mathematically correct style, but perhaps with a higher wrist turn (and using scoops). Bridgemen played the opposite style rolls, literally slowing them down at times, but perfectly clean. Watching them warm up at prelims in 1982 was mind blowing. Freelancers and Phantom used the Ludwig Hi-Volume snares (cut outs), which produced a sort of "hum" (less crisp than BD or SCV's sound), but which really projected from anywhere on the field.

The variety also extended into tenor lines, with 3-4 types of drums being used across the top 12 (Slingerland Cut-a-Ways, Ludwig Power Toms, Rogers standard cylindrical shells, etc.) Some lines went for total legato tonality (witness the '79 Guardsmen, who tuned their Cut-a-Ways very loose and achieved perhaps the loudest quad line sound in the history of drum corps - literally every note in the show could be heard live and in the recordings). Others went for a more staccato sound.

The pre-Kevlar years were great! Except for a head pulling just before the start of a show!

[Piper]

I grew up being taught to play the Connecticut style (flamingo style is more like it). Then we got a new snare tech who recently aged out of SCV under Sanford and we all had to learn to play "low and tight". Biggest musical adjustment that I ever had to make, but it was fun and I learned a lot.

[Jay B]

I want to thank everybody for their contributions to this post. I asked a simple question and got a master class in the history of drum corps snare drumming, a subject that endlessly fascinates to me. I am especially thankful for those who provided the names of the great teachers, arrangers, and performers who were some of the founding fathers of this activity, and of whom I was not aware. It was also nice to learn something of Frank Arsenault's pedigree. It would be interesting to see kind of a family tree of who taught who. Some of the junior corps guys playing today could probably trace their chops back to J. Moore. What a gas!

Please lets not forget this stuff. Pass this history on!

Thanks.

[ajlisko]

I want to thank everybody for their contributions to this post. I asked a simple question and got a master class in the history of drum corps snare drumming, a subject that endlessly fascinates to me. I am especially thankful for those who provided the names of the great teachers, arrangers, and performers who were some of the founding fathers of this activity, and of whom I was not aware. It was also nice to learn something of Frank Arsenault's pedigree. It would be interesting to see kind of a family tree of who taught who. Some of the junior corps guys playing today could probably trace their chops back to J. Moore. What a gas!

Please lets not forget this stuff. Pass this history on!

Thanks.

Google the name Rick Beckham ... you'll find a link to his Rudimental Drumming website, which has tons of historical information along with pics and audio and video clips of fine rudimental stuff ...

Andy

[Jay B]

Google the name Rick Beckham ... you'll find a link to his Rudimental Drumming website, which has tons of historical information along with pics and audio and video clips of fine rudimental stuff ...

Andy

Thanks. Great site.

[sky]

Cookie,

Two other names that should be added to your list of excellent drummers that played "after your time" would be Bob Hoffheins and Jimmy Dinkins, who went on to teach several dci drumlines and judge dci. Thanks for including me in that illustrious list of USAF drummers but, for accuracy, I gotta mention that I went into the USAF Pipe Band, the segment of the "corps" that was kept when the drum corps was disbanded.

I did, however, have the great privilege to learn from and play with John Bosworth for those years. John was pretty much responsible for revolutionizing pipe band drumming by combining American, Swiss and Gaelic rudimental traditions into a new, unique USAF Pipe Band style. Also playing in the Pipe Band drumline were Ben Curtis who's nephew was this year's center snare for Cavies, and Bill Semanek, a soprano from Blessed Sac. You can check out some of their work (1968) at the USAF Alumni website: http://usafdrumcorps.us/ </a> along with a lot of other audio and video recordings.

SKY

edited to delete bad link

Edited August 11, 2009 by sky