It's been 21 Long years....but......

[GMichael1230]

OP...couldn't help but close your eyes and see the KC on the 50...the grey and black...hear the crescendo..."Happy Times...pow,pow,pow...Happy Nights...pow, pow, pow...Happy Days...Are...Here...A...gain....waaaaaahhhhhhh"....pretty awesome!

(hope you could hear the hornline with that little write-up)

OMG, LOL, you gave me goosebumps and now I'm going to go watch it again !!!

Thanks

G

[GMichael1230]

Wow. Condescending much?

If I were a BD parent, I'd resent all the nasty, hateful comments that go on here as well. And no, it's not "criticism of everyone", there's a blatantly anti-BD bias here for whatever reason (most likely extreme jealousy cause all their teams aren't nearly as good or as successful).

In fact, there's a thread right now over on the BD forums with quotes from here and just how nasty the commentary is. It ain't flattering.

Ya know, I love BD, didnt care fo 2005, and this hsow in 09 really grew on me, and took some time.....I have loved them since I first saw them, and defended them to the point where poeple I marched with wont talk to me til this day saying I dont have any "loyalty"....I read tons of rude , snide, childish, uneducated remarks here and I've felt the negativity against them many, many times.....Ya know what ?

Who cares !! Its their problem.

Think of all the well deserved titles, the most ever brass, precussion, visual, guard titles..etc, etc....Undefeated seasons, blah, blah, blah..

When they frown, or say things about the drill, or this, or that, I close my eyes, think of T.O., or La Fiesta, or Happy Days, or Los suertos, or any other classic chart and relish in the fact that I can happily post this:

FYWW

G

[GMichael1230]

Well, I guess you have a point there.

Anyway, I'm glad that we at least reached a sort of understanding. That's the only way we can really elevate DCP (and other boards) above the types of comments that could create bad blood for the parent, booster or other corps supporter who stops in to read the boards now and then.

We're not all bad people here. . .really!

Hey ! Moderator !! Stay on topic, your supposed to steer this thread back to the point "Happy days are here again" and now that song is part of a championship !! Do your job !!

G

[Plan9]

I wish you would stop pointing to this as if it is some sort of indictment on all of the other corps or as an example of just how classy the Blue Devils were for doing it. First, the Blue Devils were right next to Crown and as a result, they were one of two corps that could have directly applauded Crown (I don't recall who was on the other side). Second, the other corps were either at attention or parade rest and thus not moving (for the most part) at all. Third, since the corps did not clap for Crown, they were consistent in NOT applauding the Blue Devils. Not one bit of that strikes me as being a "lack of poise and sportsmanship." Get over it.

Blue Devils won, I am a little baffled as to why you feel compelled to essentialluy run into a cluster of BD haters in basically every thread on here and accuse them all of being Blue Deilvs haters. There are people who hate the Blue Devils regardless of what they do on the field. Just like there are people who hate all of the top corps regardless of what they do on the field -- heck I had someone near me in the stands at Finals start bashing the Cadets for their use of sound bites at the begining of the show, before anything happened on the field. And guess what, after the show, he continued to bash on the Cadets for the amp. volume, the use of sound clips, and the use fo the synthesized piano.

So let them all have the "therapy threads" as you have called them ad nauseum and just move on. People hate Blue Devils. So what? I just wonder which corps it is that you hate? I think on some level everyone has one or two corps that just really annoys them -- either because of the shows or their fans or because they are the main competition -- but I just wonder if you would be joining in the Crown or Cadets bashing had either of them somehow won. Given your drive to attack everyone for hating the Blue Devils, I have a feeling you would be just as passionate in your attack of the other corps, and of course all those who actually like those other corps. But, that all right, it means you are a typical drum corps fan, and not the uber-evolved, non-hating, individual that you claim

Then your feeling is wrong. I don't bash other corps. I'm not comfortable suggesting that any kid out there busting his/her ### deserves the venom of the variety I've been hearing. These are all great corps. some are a bit better in terms of design and performance than others, but they are all stellar. Additionally, you are obviously a DCP vet of much longer standing than I and understand these are just the disgruntled venting so maybe you know enough to stay silent. Consider this a rookie mistake on my part for wading in, but it's in my DNA when I hear baseless attacks. Also, I brought up the comment about the applauding because it struck my wife and I at the time as extraordinary, and it just seemed very classy and what we felt should be the tone of the event. However your explanation has merit. By the way that was the first comment anyone has had on my observation. I do admit to calling some of the drill of the top contenders this year "one dimensional" and refering to some of the kaleidoscopic drill as eye popping but overdone. Finally, I was unaware of the etiquette (as a BD fan) that I should simply read the threads with hateful comments and just move on, it's just the way it is. I will take your comments in the spirit of advice.

[Wadep66]

Um, what was the topic again? Oh yeah....

I loved the 1988 production. In fact, it is the only BD show that I really dug and still do. I thought it was very classy, unique, and very showy. I was hoping they'd keep the unis longer than one season. I do dig the jazzy music and they play the @&%* out of everything they touch.

I'm tired of getting into the discussion of this years show so I won't.

but yeah, the 21 years ago production was the shiznit.

[Tony L.]

Then your feeling is wrong. I don't bash other corps. I'm not comfortable suggesting that any kid out there busting his/her ### deserves the venom of the variety I've been hearing. These are all great corps. some are a bit better in terms of design and performance than others, but they are all stellar. Additionally, you are obviously a DCP vet of much longer standing than I and understand these are just the disgruntled venting so maybe you know enough to stay silent. Consider this a rookie mistake on my part for wading in, but it's in my DNA when I hear baseless attacks. Also, I brought up the comment about the applauding because it struck my wife and I at the time as extraordinary, and it just seemed very classy and what we felt should be the tone of the event. However your explanation has merit. By the way that was the first comment anyone has had on my observation. I do admit to calling some of the drill of the top contenders this year "one dimensional" and refering to some of the kaleidoscopic drill as eye popping but overdone. Finally, I was unaware of the etiquette (as a BD fan) that I should simply read the threads with hateful comments and just move on, it's just the way it is. I will take your comments in the spirit of advice.

You are correct, it was meant in the spirit of advice. And thank you for pointing out that those of us who are "DCP veterans" have really become a little too jaded where we pretty much assume that everyone has an ax to grind. And I do think that it would be good for everyone to just stop complaining -- a trait of drum corps fans that I really saw in Indy, but not necessarily in relation to the competition. Maybe it's the longing for the tick system that makes everyone want to nitpick everything, rather than just focus on what you enjoy. I mean, while I did think that the spread between the Devils and Crown/Cadets was bit excessive, and I was disappointed in the staging for the brass section during the show, I did not boo when the score was announced. I do agree that everyone has a right to their opinion, but I do agree that a lot of fans take it too far. I think that one thing that I have learned from being a drum corps fan for a little more than 20 years is that the scores ultimately do not matter. Once one reaches that stage, then drum corps can be fun again.

But I do think that the need to complain and not like corps is not limited to the midwest or east as I have heard and seen plenty of the same conduct in California during the few shows that I have attended in California where certain eastern corps attended (mostly just Pasadena in 2007). I think that the big difference in behavior in California is simply that they see the corps from the rest of the country so infrequently that they are basically just happy to see them. So in that regard, I don't doubt that your impression of California audience conduct does have some merit, but there really is no fundamental difference.

[tja273]

What he said...

[Plan9]

You are correct, it was meant in the spirit of advice. And thank you for pointing out that those of us who are "DCP veterans" have really become a little too jaded where we pretty much assume that everyone has an ax to grind. And I do think that it would be good for everyone to just stop complaining -- a trait of drum corps fans that I really saw in Indy, but not necessarily in relation to the competition. Maybe it's the longing for the tick system that makes everyone want to nitpick everything, rather than just focus on what you enjoy. I mean, while I did think that the spread between the Devils and Crown/Cadets was bit excessive, and I was disappointed in the staging for the brass section during the show, I did not boo when the score was announced. I do agree that everyone has a right to their opinion, but I do agree that a lot of fans take it too far. I think that one thing that I have learned from being a drum corps fan for a little more than 20 years is that the scores ultimately do not matter. Once one reaches that stage, then drum corps can be fun again.

But I do think that the need to complain and not like corps is not limited to the midwest or east as I have heard and seen plenty of the same conduct in California during the few shows that I have attended in California where certain eastern corps attended (mostly just Pasadena in 2007). I think that the big difference in behavior in California is simply that they see the corps from the rest of the country so infrequently that they are basically just happy to see them. So in that regard, I don't doubt that your impression of California audience conduct does have some merit, but there really is no fundamental difference.

Thanks, Tony! Appreciate you taking the time for a thoughtful answer. See...some of us can be trained!

NOTE: One last item concerning the 99.05. Is is possible that the judges (who were pretty much unanimous all year with BD and never really close) are suggesting something to all the corps with the big spread between BD and Crown/Cadets? AND I HAVE NO FIRM IDEA. I do believe it's possibly related to Quality/Content vs Quantity/Velocity. I personally think that Crown's show had all of these (to some degree) and maybe BD's less so but clearly more Quality/Content. I'd be interested in your's (and others) thoughts. And thanks again!

[bawker]

I do believe it's possibly related to Quality/Content vs Quantity/Velocity. I personally think that Crown's show had all of these (to some degree) and maybe BD's less so but clearly more Quality/Content.

I think this is a correct assumption, and here's why: a few years ago, Hop lamented on his blog these same sort of comments (paraphrased here) that execution and cleanliness were the driving factors behind being rewarded on the sheets now rather than the attempt at difficulty. Someone else over the course of judging debate here mentioned how a show like Cadets 1993 would have been destroyed on the sheets nowadays, which is kind of restatement of that line of thinking.

That's not to say that BD just sat out there for eleven minutes . . .but I feel like the judging system looked at how clean BD was execution-wise (this year, to the point of sterility for some, it seems) and that was the deciding factor over the Cadets/Crown, even though . . .from a certain viewpoint . . .those shows "look" more difficult.

As has been said many times, though, BD's modus operandi has always been to make the difficult look easy, so it can be frustrating for some fans.

Fact of the matter is, if you're out there and it looks like you're one step away from a trainwreck that knocks down ten people, well, that can equate to balls-out attempt recognition by the judges . . . and while it's exciting to see performed, the fact is that it also probably translates upstairs to coming up short in the execution portion.

. . .just my two bits.

[Plan9]

I think this is a correct assumption, and here's why: a few years ago, Hop lamented on his blog these same sort of comments (paraphrased here) that execution and cleanliness were the driving factors behind being rewarded on the sheets now rather than the attempt at difficulty. Someone else over the course of judging debate here mentioned how a show like Cadets 1993 would have been destroyed on the sheets nowadays, which is kind of restatement of that line of thinking.

That's not to say that BD just sat out there for eleven minutes . . .but I feel like the judging system looked at how clean BD was execution-wise (this year, to the point of sterility for some, it seems) and that was the deciding factor over the Cadets/Crown, even though . . .from a certain viewpoint . . .those shows "look" more difficult.

As has been said many times, though, BD's modus operandi has always been to make the difficult look easy, so it can be frustrating for some fans.

Fact of the matter is, if you're out there and it looks like you're one step away from a trainwreck that knocks down ten people, well, that can equate to balls-out attempt recognition by the judges . . . and while it's exciting to see performed, the fact is that it also probably translates upstairs to coming up short in the execution portion.

. . .just my two bits.

Best description of the difference I've heard yet!

I will only add that part of BD's problem (as you suggested) is that the crowd (and many on these boards) may not know just how intricate and demanding the manuevers BD did this year. I witnessed about 7 different BD practices over the summer at different times and I will tell you that I was totlally shocked at the intricate effort they put into each beat. They might spend 45 minutes on 2 or 3 beats with vis techs hovering all around. There was literally no room for error in some of those moves in and around the chairs. The judges were right there and saw it first hand, and THAT I think was a big difference. But to the crowd it may have seemed effortless. On the other hand, the Cadets (and Crown to some degree) were clearly at the edge of physical capability (for any performer) and it showed (and I don't mean that in a bad way).

Edited August 13, 2009 by Plan9