Cavalier Brass Ideology

[wdlover]

OK I lied. I'm going to comment further.

1. Marching instruments dynamic range in relation to actual quality of sound is limited?

NO. If a staff is teaching a specific tone quality or sonority at all dynamic ranges, then the dynamic range will be limited. Cav's do just that. They try to sound exactly the same all the time no matter how loud or soft. There are rare occassions where they will throw in a "white noise" effect which is heavily assisted by suspended cymbals.

TRUTH. Even Bb instruments have a huge range of dynamics to work with. The key element that has been lost in the drum corps pedagogy for most instructors is the process to finding all dynamic limits and then perfecting them. After those limits are found, there is a process of refinement which takes about a month. I'm not telling any secrets so I'll shut up on that point ... but I can tell you the few brass programs who do still "GET IT" are a short list.

1. PR

2. Cadets (although they do not refine those limits anymore)

3. BD

4. Crown (although I don't think they take it to the extreme)

One hint ....... first destroy .... second heal .... 3rd refine. That's old school, and few do it anymore.

Cavies in NO WAY subscribe to this method. They in no way sound like a line would at the end of the season who practices this method. End result is a pretty hornline that often sounds a tag "light". Great sound quality but no umph and at times can sound very very thin at lower dynamics or even at mp ................... errrrrr they're MF.

Further, on the math point. Let's say Cavies have a "hit" on F major. They'll keep the baris at mid range and maybe pop 2 of the leads on a high Bb. Same will be done with the sops only 2 of the leads will play a double F concert rather than stacking the 20 trumpets on G, Bnat, D, double G all above the staff. This would bury all other voices due to the higher frequency. If they did this, all other players would have to play twice as loud in order to balance. So mathematically, they don't need that many players in the upper range in order to achieve the balance that they want .......... = boring and pretty.

Give me 40 guys and 2 months of hardcore training and they would bury that hornline ... maybe with a couple of mistakes but I would GLADLY take it.

wow... all I have to say is wow.

In particular... "One hint ....... first destroy .... second heal .... 3rd refine. That's old school, and few do it anymore."

Maybe one of the most hilarious approaches to music I've ever heard. It's playing an instrument, not a fat kid attacking a bag of Doritos. Seriously though thanks, it's been a long week, I needed the laugh. You're pretty much saying, a baby should run... sorry, not run, sprint first, then walk, then stand, then sit.

Just a generic note, I hope too many of you aren't band directors. I feel bad for the poor kids learning how to play their instruments from you. ;)

[TheClutch]

One hint ....... first destroy .... second heal .... 3rd refine. That's old school, and few do it anymore.

This is how we learned, and even considering our placement, most people on here have commented that our hornline was great.

Im not saying that its bad to play loud(er), in fact carolina crown and cadets were my two favorite shows this year.

I just think its not bad for a corps to play -slightly- under that level. Its just a different way of doing things, and if you think that makes it not enjoyable IN THE LEAST BIT or that its not drum corps, then you wasted your $200 on a ticket if you went to finals knowing you would hate a show because they "arent loud enough"

Yes its different, but "The Cavaliers" are not dead to me because they play quieter. They produce great, enjoyable shows.

Edited August 20, 2009 by TheClutch

[TheClutch]

I said they sound pretty ... but what they play is contrived and hosed. Has been for nearly 2 decades with rare exception.

Theyre version of Gavorkna Fanfare (92) is one of my favorite pieces and it sounds pretty close to the original. haha. and its super loud.

[general_tsos_chicken2]

wow... all I have to say is wow.

In particular... "One hint ....... first destroy .... second heal .... 3rd refine. That's old school, and few do it anymore."

Maybe one of the most hilarious approaches to music I've ever heard. It's playing an instrument, not a fat kid attacking a bag of Doritos. Seriously though thanks, it's been a long week, I needed the laugh. You're pretty much saying, a baby should run... sorry, not run, sprint first, then walk, then stand, then sit.

Just a generic note, I hope too many of you aren't band directors. I feel bad for the poor kids learning how to play their instruments from you. ;)

theres a difference between teaching jr high/ high school kids and teaching a top world class hornline. A good educator knows this, and may choose to take another approach with the wc hornline. assuming that we instruct kids the same way we do for a drum corps is a bit naive.

I'll stand by what I said before, there's more than one way to skin a cat, the cavaliers do it more safe and it works for them, theres nothing wrong with it. I just enjoy the other method more (of brass playing in a hornline.... not skinning a cat )

[supersop]

wow... all I have to say is wow.

In particular... "One hint ....... first destroy .... second heal .... 3rd refine. That's old school, and few do it anymore."

Maybe one of the most hilarious approaches to music I've ever heard. It's playing an instrument, not a fat kid attacking a bag of Doritos. Seriously though thanks, it's been a long week, I needed the laugh. You're pretty much saying, a baby should run... sorry, not run, sprint first, then walk, then stand, then sit.

Just a generic note, I hope too many of you aren't band directors. I feel bad for the poor kids learning how to play their instruments from you. ;)

The kids coming in aren't babies. They know how to play. Most have never truly experimented with the extreme limits of the instrument. If it's never approached, it can never be mastered. That method definitely works if a caption head is going for a true drum corps sound. There are other ways to achieve it as well but none have produced the magnitude of exceptional brass lines like that method has. There is far more to it beyond the hints, so don't diss it if you don't understand it. That's was the entire point of the post and obviously, you don't get it.

[supersop]

Theyre version of Gavorkna Fanfare (92) is one of my favorite pieces and it sounds pretty close to the original. haha. and its super loud.

And that was 17 years ago. How many changes in brass staff have they had since then?

[TheClutch]

And that was 17 years ago. How many changes in brass staff have they had since then?

I was replying to the bold statement of "two decades"

[supersop]

I was replying to the bold statement of "two decades"

17 years is "nearly 2 decades" .... you left out a word

[TheClutch]

17 years is "nearly 2 decades" .... you left out a word

If you really want to get into the math of it....1992 is closer to one and a half decades.

not almost two.. and nearly to me sounds like...one or two years around two decades.

17 is 2 from 15...and 3 from 20...

Think of it this way....is 2007 close to 2010....doesnt seem so now, huh?

I didnt ignore any words haha

and just now listening to the hornlines in the late 90s, they seem to have more of the "drum corps" sound and not the tamer Cavalier sound we know today also.

maybe you meant...."in recent years"

Edited August 20, 2009 by TheClutch

[skewerz]

if yer not living on the edge, yer taking up too much space...