MikeN Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I've read the issue for a while on a couple of different sites, and it really seems like the matched vs. traditional argument is never going to have a real answer. I've seen folks who cite leverage, physics, muscle rotation, you name it - but nobody's ever really had a "winner" argument other than "I like it more." Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbargeron Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 Well it appears match grip vs. traditional, tuning, and the addition of instrumentation/electronics has been behind a good bit of controversy with drumlines. I know that tradition is a big deal in drum and bugle corps and perhaps things like traditional grip has its place in that effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAFL Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 You are right about the tenors-not only more drums, but the "mack daddy" tenors are in vogue now. They just look a ton. But some of the early tenor (triples!) players playing timp-toms with either slings or very crude harnesses hefted some real tonage. Those old, metal triples were heavier than anything I've seen since. It was a relief when the quads came in--and the quints I've played recently still don't come close to those triples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAFL Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 And if you heard Bluecoats and Boston's snares from this past year, you'll be pleasantly surprised, I think. Bluecoats had a rehearsal day here, so I did get to hear Bluuu's snares this past year. Didn't care for the sound. The playing was impressive--the sound wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slow Adam Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I've read the issue for a while on a couple of different sites, and it really seems like the matched vs. traditional argument is never going to have a real answer. I've seen folks who cite leverage, physics, muscle rotation, you name it - but nobody's ever really had a "winner" argument other than "I like it more."Mike IMO (and of course I am right!! lol) If there was ANY advantage whatsoever (physics, anatomy, etc) derived from playing with an underhand grip on a flat drum, we'd be gripping both sticks underhanded. I prefer for snare lines to use traditional grip, but I'm not afraid to admit it is purely aesthetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyfromhowardst Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) Those old, metal triples were heavier than anything I've seen since. It was a relief when the quads came in--and the quints I've played recently still don't come close to those triples. Oh, talk to me--I carried those bas@#$%^ for 5 years--5 formative years, not as an adult!! My spine grew into a question mark. It still takes me an hour to stand straight after sitting for any length of time. Yet somehow I wouldn't trade it in for anything. I never got to play quads. I was gone by '75. I always wondered how they would be to play----it seems odd to me that, if you look at it, quads are the only drum in the DC lineup that really have no center drum. Outside of the little poppers at the waist. But not trying to minimize anything--today's cats have a different style that's all their own. We thought we were cool back in the '70's and probably were but today's guys are sick!!! Now if the tuning could be re-thought.......... Edited September 22, 2009 by tommyfromhowardst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pearlsnaredrummer77 Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Those old, metal triples were heavier than anything I've seen since. It was a relief when the quads came in--and the quints I've played recently still don't come close to those triples. Yeah, I didn't play the very early ones, but my hs had some mid-1970s tubs, 14, 16, 18 and I think that was the start of my back trouble. I think the shells were armored to protect against bullets they were so thick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabalumnidrummer Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 pearlsnaredrummer said: "Cabsalumni is playing on vintage 7 or 8 pound mylar drums right now. So I guess we have to realize that there were weight differences in the various types of mylar drums by company, model and style." Let me clarify, for the record. In the Caballeros Alumni, we use authentic, 1960's-1970's vintage Ludwig 12" X 15" metal snare drums, some stainless steel, some (I've been told) are aluminum. All are much lighter than any other drum I've picked up in years. I haven't weighed my 10 lug steel drum, but I'd estimate it at about 10-12 pounds. I also own a 12-lug Challenger II 'Chrome-o-wood' that is possibly twice the weight. I have played Pearl, Premier and Yamaha snare drums, and all are much heavier than my all-metal snare. I own the drum I use in the Alumni Corps. It was originally 'Super-Sensitive' model, but was converted to a WFL Classic throw-off about eight years ago. We use Remo 'Black Max' Kevlar heads, but do not crank them to formica hardness. A few years back, we switched from Ludwig Silver Dots for ease of playing when some members expressed the opinion that we could better sustain our fast tempos (particularly in long rolls) on Kevlar. I prefer Ludwig extra-thin snare heads for all our drums. We have received many compliments on the sound of our snares. It's all in the tuning. Without cranking the Kevlar heads really tight, we still get a nice, hard playing surface, and we get great snare response with the extra-thin Ludwigs on the bottom. Snare drum sound is a matter of personal preference, much like the sticks you like to use versus what others prefer. I don't like the ultra-tight, ultra hard sound of Kevlar on free-floaters. It's fine for pipe bands, but not for an Alumni corps trying to emulate the music (and look) of the 1970's. Personally, I don't care for the sound of the snares in today's competing corps either, DCI or DCA. My apologies to Jim Nevermann. I only saw this thread today and never replied to his question about reaction to Hawthorne's early Latin drums. I don't know specifics, but I recall Jim Costello and former members talking about how they were met with protest initially when Bobby Hoffman wore that first set of timbales in 1961. Apparently, they were legal, but other corps complained nevertheless. The following year, bongos and congas were introduced. It was revolutionary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pearlsnaredrummer77 Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) pearlsnaredrummer said:"Cabsalumni is playing on vintage 7 or 8 pound mylar drums right now. So I guess we have to realize that there were weight differences in the various types of mylar drums by company, model and style." Let me clarify, for the record. In the Caballeros Alumni, we use authentic, 1960's-1970's vintage Ludwig 12" X 15" metal snare drums, some stainless steel, some (I've been told) are aluminum. All are much lighter than any other drum I've picked up in years. I haven't weighed my 10 lug steel drum, but I'd estimate it at about 10-12 pounds. I also own a 12-lug Challenger II 'Chrome-o-wood' that is possibly twice the weight. I have played Pearl, Premier and Yamaha snare drums, and all are much heavier than my all-metal snare. Sorry for my misqoute. I thought I'd seen you mention 7-8lbs but maybe my senility is kicking in, lol. Anyhow, I have a Slingerland TDR 15 inch in red (beautiful drum-think old 27th) that I would guess to be around 12lbs. I marched one year (83) with a 15 inch TDR in Chrome and for some reason, I always thought that was a light drum, but it really couldn't have been. Off hand, it probably was around 16lbs or betters. I also marched with Royal Crusaders final set of Slingerland cut-aways 12, 14, 16 and thought them light-but then that was in comparison to the big ######## I'd lugged in HS mentioned above. I guess when you are young you don't notice the weight as much... Edited September 23, 2009 by pearlsnaredrummer77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyfromhowardst Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 (edited) Moved to Percussion Planet. Edited September 24, 2009 by tommyfromhowardst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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