84skyrydr Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 That is not correct. Students in the US average over 1150 hours per year in school. This is more than almost every Asian country. For example, Japan averages about 1000 hours per year. Now it is true in Asian most school years are longer (by about 20-30 days), but it seems they attend school for less hours per day. It's interesting when you look at the data. It looks like most students that are below the poverty line lose skills over the 10 week summer break. Wealthier students do not lose these skills. That would make sense, most of these students attend enrichment activities during the summer. It would seem that a solution might be to provide enrichment classes during the summer for students below the poverty line. It's interesting when you talk with people about the public school system. Almost everyone agrees it's failing. But when you ask about their school, they are quite content. Even if the school is failing according to standardized tests. I guess it's kind like having a job. Everyone likes to complain, but when it comes right down to it - they are really not that unhappy about it or they would find another job. I think this perception that has been building over the last 30 years about "our failing schools" is largely a myth. Are there schools that perform better than others? Sure, but when you start looking at funding things become clearer. Most, but not all, schools that struggle have less money than schools that perform well. Not that money is the sole reason for "failing" schools, but it plays a large part. It would seem to me, you fix the funding before you try anything else. In Ohio, the state supreme court ruled that the current model of school funding illegal almost two decades ago. No one has come up with a plan that will meet the requirements. And it probably will not happen. People makes sacrifices and move to wealthier school districts to give their children a better chance to succeed. That's why real estate prices are higher in successful school districts. "No Child Left Behind" has done more to alter real estate values than what people realize. The people that live in wealthy school districts will not favor a system that takes away the advantage they have worked for. They will not favor a system that decreases the value of their real estate. I do think there are changes coming to the public school model that will effect drum corps. It could be the school year. In KY the school year starts at the beginning of August and they have breaks through out the year. I'm not in favor of a longer school year. The American generation that won WWII attended school much less than today. The American generation that landed a man on the moon or invented the micro chip attended school much less than today. In fact, when we compare standardized testing with other countries, we can only go back about 40 years. There was almost no standardized testing before 1970. How did the American students of the 20's or 50's stack up against other student's from around the world? We don't really know. Maybe the scores would have been the same as now, maybe better, maybe worse. Our perception of the American failing school system started with standardized testing. Standardized testing does no more to measure a student's ability than a score at a drum corps contest. Both scores are subjective in the sense they cannot possibly measure everything about that student or corps. Nuances are lost. In case you haven't figures it out - I'm not a big fan of competition. We can make stats say anything we want, but when you throw numbers out, are we comparing apples to apples? I, know a lot of kids are in school for say 8 hours, but what classes are they taking. Study hall for two of those 8 and gym for another hour doesn't leave much left. We are behind and its time to step up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAvery Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 We can make stats say anything we want, but when you throw numbers out, are we comparing apples to apples? I, know a lot of kids are in school for say 8 hours, but what classes are they taking. Study hall for two of those 8 and gym for another hour doesn't leave much left. We are behind and its time to step up. We are behind whom? Could you please list a specific a study? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hairbear Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 We are behind whom? Could you please list a specific a study? I can't list studies or facts or even statistics, but I just can't help but wonder: Are we trying to make " Miniature adults" of our children? Are we heaping demands upon them that they should not be concerned with until they reach true adulthood? I have heard the term: "playdates" which have to be sceduled ahead of time, for instance. Do we develop the "whole Child" or just swamp them with acedemic persuits. What about the Arts? where do they fit in? A kid needs to be a kid, when he(or she) IS a kid. One example I can list is what I call "Child star syndrome". Look no further than Hollywood to see the negative effects of this "syndrome". There are lots of them who "crashed and burned". Of course, some have become successful adults but did they ever have a chance to just be a kid? These are all retorical questions, but they need to be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84skyrydr Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 We are behind whom? Could you please list a specific a study? No I can't because I am to lazy to look up some stats that can prove me both right and wrong at the same time, numbers can be put in any way the putter wants them put ( hows that there for education ). I am just making a generalization in that most countries seem to go longer year wise, but what classes are we counting in our zest to say we lead the world in hours per year of school? Some seniors go half days in their fourth year as they have already met most requirements. Does it make sense to keep them in school? I hope it doesn't kill drum corps, or all the summer activities that exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 I, know a lot of kids are in school for say 8 hours, but what classes are they taking. Study hall for two of those 8 and gym for another hour doesn't leave much left. World class generalization, for which you have no proof of any kind, statictical or otherwise. A couple of my best musicians couldn't schedule band this year because their schedules were jammed: English, French 4, Advanced Placement History, Honors Chemistry, A.P. Calculus, Statistics, Gym and Lunch. One of the kids would have dropped lunch to take band, but he couldn't fit it anyway, because Wind Ensemble and A.P. Calc run the same period. peace, Fred O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84skyrydr Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 World class generalization, for which you have no proof of any kind, statictical or otherwise. A couple of my best musicians couldn't schedule band this year because their schedules were jammed: English, French 4, Advanced Placement History, Honors Chemistry, A.P. Calculus, Statistics, Gym and Lunch. One of the kids would have dropped lunch to take band, but he couldn't fit it anyway, because Wind Ensemble and A.P. Calc run the same period.peace, Fred O. I said I have no proof with a verifiable number. I am going on what is offered around here, and there ARE schools that don't have all the nice extra honors classes and chemistry let alone ANY foreign language. Of this much I know. This isn't a political debate, I am just stating the numbers can say anything you want them to. Ask your student in the Statistics class. Please tell me I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAvery Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 I can't list studies or facts or even statistics, but I just can't help but wonder: Are we trying to make " Miniature adults" of our children? Are we heaping demands upon them that they should not be concerned with until they reach true adulthood? I have heard the term: "playdates" which have to be sceduled ahead of time, for instance. Do we develop the "whole Child" or just swamp them with acedemic persuits. What about the Arts? where do they fit in? A kid needs to be a kid, when he(or she) IS a kid. One example I can list is what I call "Child star syndrome". Look no further than Hollywood to see the negative effects of this "syndrome". There are lots of them who "crashed and burned". Of course, some have become successful adults but did they ever have a chance to just be a kid? These are all retorical questions, but they need to be addressed. I agree. My daughter is in 2nd grade. We do about an hour and a half of homework a night. On top of other activities. Since some of the work is already known (spelling words), we asked the teacher if we could get it early on Friday, instead of Monday. She said she could not get it ready by Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAvery Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 No I can't because I am to lazy to look up some stats that can prove me both right and wrong at the same time, numbers can be put in any way the putter wants them put ( hows that there for education ). I am just making a generalization in that most countries seem to go longer year wise, but what classes are we counting in our zest to say we lead the world in hours per year of school? Some seniors go half days in their fourth year as they have already met most requirements. Does it make sense to keep them in school? I hope it doesn't kill drum corps, or all the summer activities that exist. How do you defend your position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 I said I have no proof with a verifiable number. I am going on what is offered around here, and there ARE schools that don't have all the nice extra honors classes and chemistry let alone ANY foreign language. Of this much I know. This isn't a political debate, I am just stating the numbers can say anything you want them to. Ask your student in the Statistics class. Please tell me I am wrong. I still think that saying a substantial percentage (no need for an exact, or even rough, percentage; anyway, statistics can say anything we want them to, right?) of American students take a couple of study halls, eat lunch and then loaf for the rest of the day is painting with a pretty broad brush. peace (no personal disrespect intended), Fred O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanAndreasen Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 I can't list studies or facts or even statistics, but I just can't help but wonder: Are we trying to make " Miniature adults" of our children? Are we heaping demands upon them that they should not be concerned with until they reach true adulthood? I have heard the term: "playdates" which have to be sceduled ahead of time, for instance. Do we develop the "whole Child" or just swamp them with acedemic persuits. What about the Arts? where do they fit in? A kid needs to be a kid, when he(or she) IS a kid. One example I can list is what I call "Child star syndrome". Look no further than Hollywood to see the negative effects of this "syndrome". There are lots of them who "crashed and burned". Of course, some have become successful adults but did they ever have a chance to just be a kid? These are all retorical questions, but they need to be addressed. I'm with you here. My children are in a wealthy/professional school district that is painfully competitive. The Talented and Gifted (TAG) program takes the top 10% based on ITBS (Iowa Test of Basic Skills) scores. I used to teach science at the middle school and we had 6th graders taking SATs and ACTs. The advent of No Child Left Behind drove me out of education. I could no longer be successful in improving test scores year after year without cramming useless crap down the students throats. Out went "Hands on - Minds on" science and in came the textbooks. The "doing" of science just about ground to a halt and the curriculum turned into a history of science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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