Jeff Ream Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I get all that. My concern is the potential inconsistency in judging shows.Some judges watches the pre-show and some don't. A judge watches some pre-shows but not others.To use your example, if Crown's 09 show falls apart without the pre-show, and a judge doesn't see it (for whatever reason), wouldn't that put them at a disadvantage compared to a show that doesn't have one or isn't "required" to set up the show? When I'm in the stands I often don't watch the pre-show. When I judge a band show I pay zero attention to the field until the "official" start time. I use that interval time to finish my evaluation of the previous group and prepare myself for the next one. For the sake of consistency, I don't like the idea that there's a question of whether or not something may or may not be considered by a judge. And I think corps will put themselves at a disadvantage if they program something that's important to their program in the pre-show. I guess we'll see how this goes. my concern is some corps who should be working on the protion of the show that counts spends too much time on the preshow. IMO we had non finalists last year who what they did before the show was better than what they did during the show Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slitzen62 Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 my concern is some corps who should be working on the protion of the show that counts spends too much time on the preshow. IMO we had non finalists last year who what they did before the show was better than what they did during the show Amen to that Jeff!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keymodf Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 So critique no longer exists? "There were two other procedural changes that were approved by the voting membership after all the rules were voted upon. Post-show critiques, when corps staff members used to discuss their productions with the judging community on a periodic basis, have been replaced by more informal pre-show discussion opportunities with the judges." Good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 my concern is some corps who should be working on the protion of the show that counts spends too much time on the preshow. IMO we had non finalists last year who what they did before the show was better than what they did during the show But who's fault is that? We frequently have corps who march at all levels with parts of their show that are not as clean as they should be because they are designed too difficult. If a staff focuses too much of their time on the non-judged pre-show, that's totally on the staff and not the system. If a corps places in 13th because they didn't design their show to be achievable and is dirty at Semi's, that's totally on the staff and not the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 But who's fault is that? We frequently have corps who march at all levels with parts of their show that are not as clean as they should be because they are designed too difficult. If a staff focuses too much of their time on the non-judged pre-show, that's totally on the staff and not the system. If a corps places in 13th because they didn't design their show to be achievable and is dirty at Semi's, that's totally on the staff and not the system. it is the corps fault yes...but, perception is reality. you "don't have to have a pre-show"....but you don't have to use amps, synths, Bb brass asymetric drill.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peel Paint Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 (edited) The advantage to having a good pre-show, a la Phantom and Blue Stars 2008, is that it draws the crowd into the show. Whether that often translates into points on the scoresheet is another matter. I too wonder how much attention judges will be able to pay to pre-shows. You listen to the judge critiques when they were on the DVD, and some were paying attention. But I can imagine that some are busy with other things. I'm willing to take it on faith from Dan Farrell http://www.dci.org/news/view.cfm?news_id=c...22-e6d7d0fb1e62 that critique was counter-productive and it was time to try something different. I give 'em credit for just trying to make things better out there. They may well be right about this one (going to a pre-show talk instead of formal post-show critique). If it doesn't work, either, or creates new problems, they'll probably be quick to modify or drop it. Again, there may be problems getting people together because they're busy with other stuff. Edited January 26, 2010 by Peel Paint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 pre show is odd...aren't people warming up their corps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElSuarez Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 I get all that. My concern is the potential inconsistency in judging shows.Some judges watches the pre-show and some don't. A judge watches some pre-shows but not others.To use your example, if Crown's 09 show falls apart without the pre-show, and a judge doesn't see it (for whatever reason), wouldn't that put them at a disadvantage compared to a show that doesn't have one or isn't "required" to set up the show? When I'm in the stands I often don't watch the pre-show. When I judge a band show I pay zero attention to the field until the "official" start time. I use that interval time to finish my evaluation of the previous group and prepare myself for the next one. For the sake of consistency, I don't like the idea that there's a question of whether or not something may or may not be considered by a judge. And I think corps will put themselves at a disadvantage if they program something that's important to their program in the pre-show. I guess we'll see how this goes. Exactly This is about as clear as a bowl of clam chowder in a San Francisco fog. How does an adjudicator simply "watch" a pre-show, observe the what and how of the pre-show, wipe his/her mind slate clean and then start judging the performance upon the announcement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 pre show is odd...aren't people warming up their corps? Some will choose to warm them up in a pre-show format. Brass are easy to warm up in such a context. Percussion will require some creativity, but it can be done. Guard is certainly able to get some body work in, as opposed to standing still to stretch or whatever. A big advantage I see is that all corps members can get in body movement to warm up the muscles or keep them warm from the prior body warm up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted January 26, 2010 Author Share Posted January 26, 2010 pre show is odd...aren't people warming up their corps? They just spent 30-45 minutes warming up in the parking lot, how much more warm up do you need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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