If You Had to Choose...

[Dave]

It doesn't matter WHAT vehicle is used. It's the size and weight to transport instruments that matter.

20 brand new tubas will cost a Corps more in overall costs than 10 brand new sax, 10 flutes over a 5 year period..... even WITH the expected higher replacement costs of the Sax and flute components that will require more in replacement parts and maintenance in that 5 year period than the 20 tubas can be expected to have.

You haven't demonstrated that in any way. No corps is going to downgrade to some car touring around because they can fit their flute line inside; that figure is irrelevant. They'll still be using the same semi trucks burning the same amount of diesel.

[BRASSO]

You haven't demonstrated that in any way. No corps is going to downgrade to some car touring around because they can fit their flute line inside; that figure is irrelevant. They'll still be using the same semi trucks burning the same amount of diesel.

That's why those who say that' woodwinds are really, really expensive, with high replacement costs on parts that wear out quickly" don't realize that these " costs " are nothing compared to the costs bands ALREADY are incurring. The main point here is that bringing in woodwinds is no big deal cost wise, when one looks at the costs bands are already taking on with their current operational costs.

Woodwinds won't be kept out of DCI due to " cost ". I guess that woud be my central point here on this.

Edited February 19, 2010 by BRASSO

[Kamarag]

That's why those who say that' woodwinds are really, really expensive, with high replacement costs on parts that wear out quickly" don't realize that these " costs " are nothing compared to the costs bands ALREADY are incurring. The main point here is that bringing in woodwinds is no big deal cost wise, when one looks at the costs bands are already taking on with their current operational costs.

Woodwinds won't be kept out of DCI due to " cost ". I guess that woud be my central point here on this.

No, you missing a huge cost factor. It's not so much the parts for woodwinds that are the issue, is't the labor costs. Woodwind maintenance is far more intricate than brass maintenance. It's also a lot harder in many cases.

With brass instruments, corps that can't afford a trained technician can in many cases "fudge" a repair. That's a lot harder to do with woodwinds.

[Dave]

That's why those who say that' woodwinds are really, really expensive, with high replacement costs on parts that wear out quickly" don't realize that these " costs " are nothing compared to the costs bands ALREADY are incurring. The main point here is that bringing in woodwinds is no big deal cost wise, when one looks at the costs bands are already taking on with their current operational costs.

Woodwinds won't be kept out of DCI due to " cost ". I guess that woud be my central point here on this.

Key differences:

1) If corps deal with woodwinds the same way they deal with brass, and they probably will, it means they'll be buying their own lines, while most band students own or at least rent one, usually a cheaper model, they use for marching. The students also absorb the repair costs on these instruments, as well as purchase supplies for them. One of the biggest points people have made in the past is that while corps as of late have made efforts to design and purchase quality brass instruments, marching woodwinds tend to be much lower quality and it's for that among other reasons that corps introducing woodwinds that could endure a summer on tour would mean they would be introducing low quality instruments along with what is ostensibly better quality marching brass.

So bottom line on this: the corps will have to absorb purchase and maintenance costs.

2) Students in band buy their own supplies (reeds, mouthpieces, swabs, neckstraps, etc.) Would a corps require their members to do the same? To buy enough to cover an entire summer, that would seem to be a prohibitive extra cost.

3) Marching bands don't spend a month practicing outside all day, every day, in the heat of summer, followed by two solid months of traveling around the country continuing to use their instruments outside all day every day. This is a much higher level of wear and tear involved and I think that a single repad job on those woodwinds is probably very optimistic; more likely at minimum one at the beginning of the season and one midway through will be needed, and that's if every possible effort to keep the instruments in good shape is taken and nothing goes wrong.

Corps put their horns through way, way more stress than any marching band, and that's what is really going to make the cost of woodwinds much higher in the long run than any brass instrument in the drum corps world.

[BRASSO]

No, you missing a huge cost factor. It's not so much the parts for woodwinds that are the issue, is't the labor costs. Woodwind maintenance is far more intricate than brass maintenance. It's also a lot harder in many cases.

With brass instruments, corps that can't afford a trained technician can in many cases "fudge" a repair. That's a lot harder to do with woodwinds.

When I look around at all the expensive toys, staging, sound equiment, large props ( and trucks to haul it all ) etc being used in DCI now compared to ( say ) the 70's, 80's, the expectation that woodwinds " labor costs" will be a major factor keeping them out of DCI, simply does not carry that much weight at all with me. " " labor and maintenance costs " of woodwinds will be no barrier to DCI useage. You and others my disagree with this. And that is fine too. Really. Who knows, you could be right, and I'm wrong. Nobody really knows. All we can go on right now, is to look at history perhaps as our guide to see if " costs " of new props, new instumentation, replacing entire brass lines in different keys, different valves, etc has been much of an inpediment to DCI approval in the past.

Edited February 19, 2010 by BRASSO

[Kamarag]

When I look around at all the expensive toys, staging, sound equiment, large props ( and trucks to haul it all ) etc being used in DCI now compared to ( say ) the 70's, 80's, the expectation that woodwinds " labor costs" will be a major factor keeping them out of DCI, simply does not carry that much weight at all with me. " " labor and maintenance costs " of woodwinds will be no barrier to DCI useage. You and others my disagree with this. And that is fine too. Really. Who knows, you could be right, and I'm wrong. Nobody really knows. All we can go on right now, is to look at history perhaps as our guide to see if " costs " of new props, new instumentation, etc has been an inpediment to DCI approval in the past.

Right, so you really don't know. Gotcha.

[BRASSO]

Right, so you really don't know. Gotcha.

Yup. Nobody here has the powers of clairvoyance.

(If they do. I 'll take them along with me and friends to Vegas, and I'll foot the bill for their transportation, meals, and lodging..... haha!)

[Dave]

When I look around at all the expensive toys, staging, sound equiment, large props ( and trucks to haul it all ) etc being used in DCI now compared to ( say ) the 70's, 80's, the expectation that woodwinds " labor costs" will be a major factor keeping them out of DCI, simply does not carry that much weight at all with me. " " labor and maintenance costs " of woodwinds will be no barrier to DCI useage. You and others my disagree with this. And that is fine too. Really. Who knows, you could be right, and I'm wrong. Nobody really knows. All we can go on right now, is to look at history perhaps as our guide to see if " costs " of new props, new instumentation, replacing entire brass lines in different keys, different valves, etc has been much of an inpediment to DCI approval in the past.

Well, I think I do know, since I spend my days in a place that exists to make money on selling and repairing these instruments and know the costs involved even at the bare minimum level. Yes, all those other things cost money as well, for good or for ill; my point is that woodwinds will be very much on the "for ill" side in terms of quality of instruments, costs of repair and amount of work required to keep them functioning.

[76strad]

Ya cant let it die fully, it "evolves" and I hate the woodwinds, but this being fully professional, it cant die thats my view, until it becomes waht BOA is, then it can just go jump off a cliff for all I care. However keep the woodwinds out. Its a little late to rant about electronics

[soccerguy315]

Any touring corps is already equiped to transport ther tuba section. Be it 10 or 20. It is unlikely that a corps marching 20 tubas (does such a corps exist?)

Madison is marching 20 tubas this year.