Jeff Ream Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Ahhh ... I now see the flaw in my logic. We should instead take away all of our souvie financial support from the G7, and spend the money which we would have spent on them on some non-G7 souvies. Fine, using that line of reasoning, we should also take all of our applause support away from the G7 and double up our applause on some non-G7 corps of our choice. Either way, it hurts the kids in the G7 and not the directors of said corps. well, let's be real here. a big part of this issue is money. and, like any consumer product, if you want to get a message to the producer of the product, the best way is to take away funds. the G7 say attendance is down...and DCI hasn't released numbers in a few years...now...you see DCI trying to do outreach to fans of all ages and eras, not just the band kids. see the correlation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 (edited) well, let's be real here. a big part of this issue is money. and, like any consumer product, if you want to get a message to the producer of the product, the best way is to take away funds.the G7 say attendance is down...and DCI hasn't released numbers in a few years...now...you see DCI trying to do outreach to fans of all ages and eras, not just the band kids. see the correlation? Jeff, on an intellectual level I agree with you; but for lack of a better word here the "product" is not supposed to be the music, the drill, the competition, not even the corps, DCI, or the G7 proposal, but the "product" is supposed to be caring adults providing something wonderful called drum corps competitions to help positively influence the hearts and minds of "the kids". And right now I am almost crying out with pain because of this situation being so harmful to the youth. The kids are the ones we financially support; they are the ones why we buy souvies; they are the ones why we cheer, clap, and cry out with tears. The unfortunate thing here is that Hop, Gibbs, and a few others see the entertainment spectacle and money from the fans to support such a spectacle as the main focus, and they are the ones speaking to us through their own kids leaving us no recourse to speak back without us potentially hurting those we are supposed to be supporting. Edited June 14, 2010 by Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 well, let's be real here: fans will pay this money to be entertained. since i would assume an overwhelming majority of the attendance of every show on the schdule has no real direct attachment to the kids, the fans go to be entertained. I am all for good works of the heart...but I also, like a majority of the fans out there, want to get the right bang for my bucks. Given that I have spent $500 or so on tickets for this year, if I'm not entertained, my consumption may go down. I really haven't purchased tshirts for several years because I havent liked a majority of the shirts. I stopped buying all of the extras cds and dvds aside from finals because in many cases, I haven't felt like I got my bang for the bucks...and stopped being in Friends as well. I too feel bad for the kids, because they are doing what they want, and have no control over the adults that keep ####### things up. But I refuse to feel like I should have to pay "for the kids" if I'm not a happy consumer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 (edited) Ahhh ... I now see the flaw in my logic. We should instead take away all of our souvie financial support from the G7, and spend the money which we would have spent on them on some non-G7 souvies. Fine, using that line of reasoning, we should also take all of our applause support away from the G7 and double up our applause on some non-G7 corps of our choice. Either way, it hurts the kids in the G7 and not the directors of said corps. How far are you willing to stretch this line of reasoning? Is a Cadets sponsor hurting the other 46 corps if he only donates to the Cadets? Are fan preferences tantamount to child abuse? You know, the irony of it all is that the G7 show no guilt over the money they want to take away from the other 40 DCI corps. That would hurt a lot of kids. Edited June 14, 2010 by audiodb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 (edited) well, let's be real here:fans will pay this money to be entertained. since i would assume an overwhelming majority of the attendance of every show on the schdule has no real direct attachment to the kids, the fans go to be entertained. I am all for good works of the heart...but I also, like a majority of the fans out there, want to get the right bang for my bucks. Given that I have spent $500 or so on tickets for this year, if I'm not entertained, my consumption may go down. I really haven't purchased tshirts for several years because I havent liked a majority of the shirts. I stopped buying all of the extras cds and dvds aside from finals because in many cases, I haven't felt like I got my bang for the bucks...and stopped being in Friends as well. I too feel bad for the kids, because they are doing what they want, and have no control over the adults that keep ####### things up. But I refuse to feel like I should have to pay "for the kids" if I'm not a happy consumer. Yes the fans need to be entertained, and they need the bang for their buck, but here, IMHO, is where things are going pear shaped: I believe in competition; and I believe in teaching youth the proper way to improve their skills and character through competition. However, DCI is a youth activity that has gone father than even the little league world series in pushing high quality competition as "the" reason why we should support the activity. A recent poster asked the question, is a 22 year old a youth (according to the Federal Government the age for parents to use their kids as a dependent is now 26, but I digress). At least the players in little league are still youth who cannot drive, vote, or drink alcohol. Anyway, what we have now within these G7 are professional quality young adults performing in what is supposed to be an educational outlet for youth. I enjoy watching BD, SCV, Cadets, Regiment, et al. But when over half of the performers in these corps are the same age, and has the same professional skill sets, as rookies in the NY Yankees or St. Louis Cardinals, and they are still performing in a youth activity, something is amiss. So what we might need is a system in drum corps like the system of youth symphonies and professional symphonies. Both exist in the non-profit world, but one is designed as an educational outlet for youth, and the other is designed as a career outlet for adults. So, maybe it is time for corps with an average age of 20 plus who have skill sets that match professional musicians to create the G7. Just a thinking….. Edited June 14, 2010 by Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Yes the fans need to be entertained, and they need the bang for their buck, but here, IMHO, is where things are going pear shaped:I believe in competition; and I believe in teaching youth the proper way to improve their skills and character through competition. However, DCI is a youth activity that has gone father than even the little league world series in pushing high quality competition as "the" reason why we should support the activity. A recent poster asked the question, is a 22 year old a youth (according to the Federal Government the age for parents to use their kids as a dependent is now 26, but I digress). At least the players in little league are still youth who cannot drive, vote, or drink alcohol. Anyway, what we have now within these G7 are professional quality young adults performing in what is supposed to be an educational outlet for youth. I enjoy watching BD, SCV, Cadets, Regiment, et al. But when over half of the performers in these corps are the same age, and has the same professional skill sets, as rookies in the NY Yankees or St. Louis Cardinals, and they are still performing in a youth activity, something is amiss. So what we might need is a system in drum corps like the system of youth symphonies and professional symphonies. Both exist in the non-profit world, but one is designed as an educational outlet for youth, and the other is designed as a career outlet for adults. So, maybe it is time for corps with an average age of 20 plus who have skill sets that match professional musicians to create the G7. Just a thinking….. This is an excellent post! A prime example of creative thinking. I have no idea if it will work, but it's the first time, even with all the "2 league" discussions, that I've seen an actual reason to have 2 leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 OK, Stu, keep thinking... I can relate to the symphony example. For instance, the "Age 19 and above" corps (only because most 19 year olds are out of HS) would be akin to that crazy conductor (Dudamel?? sp?) and the Brazilian Youth Orchestra (ie, nationally known and lauded as the best of the amateur ranks), and the "Age 18 and below" corps would be like our Columbus Symphony (excellent players without a huge program and less money). Now, how do you handle touring compatibility between the two? And doesn't this begin to sound like Class A and A60 all over again? Just thinkin.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoutnout Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Heres a suggesstion for all who appose,ahhhh almost everything....DONT GO!! I ve said that before and all I get is well I bought my ticket, got a hotel..Oh PLEASEEEEEEEEE what a crack. So you lose some money. Isn't what you believe in worth a few bucks. You want to be there just to while and complain later. I hate a lot of the G7 crap but all the keepers of the holy grail ( drum corps ) or the ones who think its their activity to own, just don't go. That will make a bigger statement. Seems to me you just don't want to miss the show.....lol..priceless To those rational ADULTS....support who you want, buy from who you want, let the little league adults have their own show in the stands. And this is not just for the G7 haters it goes for either side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoutnout Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 This is an excellent post! A prime example of creative thinking. I have no idea if it will work, but it's the first time, even with all the "2 league" discussions, that I've seen an actual reason to have 2 leagues. If you want to seperate 18 and over and truly make it YOUTH...which I agree a kid of today at 16 is more of an adult ( In thinking anyway ) than kids 20 or more years ago but you will for sure be doing away with not just the 7 coprs but I would bet everything in the top 20 or all of DIV 1. At least a majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeekySam Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Please don't bother the Souvie people...many of them are young people who have a passion for the activity or someone in it and are unable to march for one reason or another. There is a chance they may talk to the corps director but it is more likely that they very rarely do. For Crown and Cadets the people in the booth report to the person running the tour logistics who reports to Coates and Hop. The souvie people themselves spend more time hanging with the kids and the food truck volunteers than with the director - none of whom are influential in this whole thing. If you choose to go- try to keep the evening a positive experience and not ruin it for others who are trying to just enjoy and support the results of youth's hard work and passion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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