DCI,1993 Star and Carolina Crown 200? and...

[WoobieATL]

I sure had a heck of a lot of fun performing those years.

[mchromik]

I don't even view the Star of Indiana has a Corps that even pushed the envelope, frankly. If we step back and look at their entire body of work, one sees that for the most part, they "played the DCI game " as it was layed out to be played for a Corps that hopes to win a title. Their years of music and visual is exceedingly accessible and fan friendly. Music that is easily identifiable. They do so ALL the way to 1992. It is only in 1993, that one finds the Corps formulating a complex and demanding musical and visual show that one could call cerebral in context, design and most importantly, INTENT. It's intentions in 1993 clearly is to win the DCI Title, as they see themselves on the cusp. At that period of DCI, Corps were already beginning to go the esoteric, complex, demanding, show route. One could see that transformation from the late 80's to the early 90's as the shows became more demanding ( and not surprisingly, losing more fans ). Judges began to reward complex shows done well. Star was tapped in to that new dynamic, and responded accordingly to that changing dynamic in what judges were now prepared to reward in scoring and placement. ( as an aside, the Madison Scouts were an example of a Corps that either didn't get the message in that time period, or decided that they were going to reject that message intentionally. Madison Scouts brought down the house everywhere they went in 1994 and 1995. The responses to their show was electrifying. Crowds from coast to coast ate it up. But the judges buried them... due to technique, demand, and the emerging influences on the judging captions for the visual and the guard. ) Star was not an innovator, nor a trail blazer. Not in DCI anyway. They were as conformist as could be if one is objective and actually looks at what their themes were, and what their music was for about 90 % of the years they spent doing the DCI " thing ". But what did Star do when they left DCI ? Did they follow the DCI model that was emerging, and expand on that, with a highly cerebral and complex theatre production with their creative idea when they decided to bolt from DCI ? No. Not at all. They quickly abandoned the complex DCI designed shows and decided instead to produce a show that would appeal to the REAL judges of the world... THE AUDIENCE. So they went out and produced a highly successful, award winning show, that was a big succcess because it did precisely what it set out to do. Just as they had the last 2 years that they competed in DCI... where the yarstick by which one measures and defines " good " had a completely different interpretation between that of a handful of DCI judges, and a world wide audience of thousands of theatre goers. Star was a good example, imo, of an intelligent organization that knew precisely what it had to do... and set out to do..... in different environments that required different shows in order to be successful in that environment. I saw Star as the ultimate and consummate pragmatists, actually. And I respect them for that insightful intelligence with their ability to respond appropriately in dfferent settings.

So a corps cannot be innovative if they optimize their production for the current judging community and trends? Maybe. But this is a competitive activity, hence the judges and scores. I think it is a cop out to say that the audience is the true judges and that is all that matters. Being entertaining AND scoring well is the real trick, and mark of a great production. I am not going to knock someone for doing the best they can within the field of play they are given. Its like they say, don't hate the player, hate the game.

We all saw and understood the statement that Madison was making in the mid-90s. But they were buried not because of 'what' they were doing, but 'how' they were doing it. Maybe it is punk rock cool the thumb your nose at the judges and pander to the more primal instincts of the crowd, but you don't serve your cause well if you try and make your point with bad attacks, inconsistent technique, and total disregard for the current quality standards of playing. If it had been done well, and hence more competitively, we might remember it as a turning point and maybe others would have followed their lead.

[SACMellos2010]

I can see 85-89 and 92 as not being innovative or raising the bar but the 90 show was a diiferent direction for Star. The 91 and especially 93 show did raise the bar.. there was never a combination of brass and drill like in 1991 and 1993 was unlike anything attempted at the time. To claim that 93 was the norm of the day is simply WRONG!!! In my opinion that is like saying Cadets 83 was the norm of the day...

I thought the 93 show was cool and I enjoyed it, as I have a lot of different shows over the history of drum corps, so please give credit where credit is due as it was definitely out there for that era.

As for our 92 show being accepted by fans... sorry but that was not the case. We hoped it would be but we were booed regularly not because of the show or the performance but simply because we were the Star of Indiana surrounded by lots of false perceptions. As has been said probably more times than needs to be, the Star folks always felt the 92 brass performance was the best of the existence. Thank you Jim Prime, Donnie Van Doren and all of the staff for that.

BTW thanks for continuing to talk about an organization that means so much to me and that almost everyone from the Star family wishes was still a competitive drum corps.

But guess what.... Star of Indiana will take the field one more time on Friday, August 13!! We hope you will enjoy it!!!

Edited June 18, 2010 by General Blunt

[tommytimp]

I especially loved how the percussion voices were arranged with the brass voices during the middle part of the show... Great show that I don't understand why people complain about so much...

Wow, I wish people would read entire posts. I did use the term "very, very well executed," see those two verys that implies emphasis, and talked about how I liked the scoring of Chester, which was the middle piece in the program: Flag of Stars, CHESTER, Amber Waves.

Everyone get it?

I've been told, first by Chuck Naffier, who ought to know, and also by many others, that the Star 92 hornline was one of the finest ever at that time. I will stipulate. The drumline I know was very, vewry good. the guard was good as well. The execution was VERY, VERY GOOD. It's the show on paper that grates. I don't like having onions rubbed in my eyes to get me to cry. I loathe that kind of manipulation in art in general, and that's what I didn't like about the Star show.

93? Love. (Except for the symmetrical pit.) And full credit to the staff for the 180.

Edited June 18, 2010 by tommytimp

[BRASSO]

So a corps cannot be innovative if they optimize their production for the current judging community and trends? Maybe. But this is a competitive activity, hence the judges and scores. I think it is a cop out to say that the audience is the true judges and that is all that matters

.

Unfortunately, I can't respond to your thread here in an apprpriate manner, as I fail to understand why you interpreted my remarks above the way you did. For example, nowhere in my remarks did I say that" a Corps can not be innovative if they optimize their production for the current judging community and trends" ? As a matter of record, my remarks above state that I believe just the OPPOSITE of this. That it is THE way upon which titles are won, and that in DCI in their last couple of years Star fully embraced that model of complex and cerebral and sometimes inaccessible to most fans type shows... but " abandoned it when they created BLAST ". Secondly, I did not say that audiences are " the true judges and that is all that matters " . I referenced that comment to " theartre goers ", not "DCI audiences " in my comments above. I fully acknowledged that in DCI the judges carry the day, NOT the audience.

I have to tell you... don't take it personally... but it is very frustrating to take the time to post one's remarks and yet have those remarks be so completely misinterpreted so that what I typed is interpreted 180 degrees from I actually said and believe. Either I need to find a way to make my comments more cogent, or you will need to find a way to increase your reading comprehension skills. Otherwise, this forum discussion board will quickly become an exercise in future frustration and futility for the both of us.

Edited June 18, 2010 by BRASSO

[Matt_S]

I have to tell you... don't take it personally... but it is very frustrating to take the time to post one's remarks and yet have those remarks be so completely misinterpreted so that what I typed is interpreted 180 degrees from I actually said and believe. Either I need to find a way to make my comments more cogent, or you will need to find a way to increase your reading comprehension skills.

I'd suggest the former. Paragraphs would be a good start.

[BRASSO]

I'd suggest the former. Paragraphs would be a good start.

Fair enough. I 'm amenable to appropriate criticisms . I also need ( like Star did with Blast ) to understand the audience.

Edited June 18, 2010 by BRASSO

[BRASSO]

. I don't like having onions rubbed in my eyes to get me to cry. I loathe that kind of manipulation in art in general, and that's what I didn't like about the Star show.

I almost cried too with Star's '92 show. I didn't even need the onions. It was almost tears of joy. I thought Star '93 might very well have been the best 2nd place finishing Corps ever. But not quite. I thought, just for one example,that Blue Devils 2008 was an overall better Corps than '93 Star of Indiana. Guard and percusson alone, were better, imo. There were a couple of others 2nd place finishers since 1993 that I thought overall were better Corps than '93 Star. That said, Star was a terrific Corps even though '93 edition was not particularly one of my favorites of theirs.

Edited June 18, 2010 by BRASSO

[cmhs59]

When Star finished their semi's performance in 1990 I turned to my best friend from California and said--" I think I've just seen the best drum corps show ever". His response--"Yeah, and it wasn't even 'our' corps". We have been Blue Devil super fans since 1974.

When I met some friends during finals week in 1992 and they asked me if I had seen Star yet and what I thought of them I responded that I had and they can "whisper". Class envy sucks.

I was in Jackson and thought Star was hotter than the weather!

57 days to Star's performance at semi-finals. I'll be there too.

[BRASSO]

When Star finished their semi's performance in 1990 I turned to my best friend from California and said--" I think I've just seen the best drum corps show ever". His response--"Yeah, and it wasn't even 'our' corps". We have been Blue Devil super fans since 1974.

When I met some friends during finals week in 1992 and they asked me if I had seen Star yet and what I thought of them I responded that I had and they can "whisper". Class envy sucks.

I was in Jackson and thought Star was hotter than the weather!

57 days to Star's performance at semi-finals. I'll be there too.

I can't wait to see and hear Star's reunion Corps perform. I always consider these alumni/ reunion shows done at Finals week to be one of the highlights of the Championships. Kudos to DCI for making this almost an annual occurance now. This addition to their Championships Week format has been a big hit with fans from day one... ( '94 27th Lancers reunion Corps perf. )

Edited June 18, 2010 by BRASSO