jjeffeory Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Wow, I wish people would read entire posts. I did use the term "very, very well executed," see those two verys that implies emphasis, and talked about how I liked the scoring of Chester, which was the middle piece in the program: Flag of Stars, CHESTER, Amber Waves. Everyone get it? I've been told, first by Chuck Naffier, who ought to know, and also by many others, that the Star 92 hornline was one of the finest ever at that time. I will stipulate. The drumline I know was very, vewry good. the guard was good as well. The execution was VERY, VERY GOOD. It's the show on paper that grates. I don't like having onions rubbed in my eyes to get me to cry. I loathe that kind of manipulation in art in general, and that's what I didn't like about the Star show. 93? Love. (Except for the symmetrical pit.) And full credit to the staff for the 180. Heh, I don't fall for the manipulation. I listen to the music on it's own merits without being swayed by the symbolism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingusmonk Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric M. Buckman Posted June 18, 2010 Author Share Posted June 18, 2010 Wow...pretty amazing responses...one last thought...as far as understating the changes that went on before 80-95...I didnt mean to minimize those changes...my point was that they were minor tremors that lead up to the earthquake...in alot of ways...I too agree that Suncoast Sound pushed the limits...but I doubt that show would place as high technically 5-10-15 years later...anyway...as far as 1-2-3 valve bugles pit, drums colorguard ad nauseum...those changes made the most since a nautral progression of what music was...C'mon to say the pit shouldnt be there is ascinine..if it's there in broadway or an orchestra that's a natural progression... to me...but some things have gone IMHO too far left...woodwinds...body movement etc...I am not nockin it...just saying it's just not my taste anymore...as a member of 89 Cadets we had body movement in Les Mis...but it was there to tell apart of the story...now it just seems to be there all the time...I love SCV body movement in the 80's...now...not so much...the Cavies when they did the show "the machine"...I mean seriously...that was AWESOME(now their musical attacks and body stability(just kidding)...but it's kind of like "scatter" drill...Loved it and it used to be there for a reason...to make a statement...now its just there because we can do it...that drill was meant to convey chaos into resolution...ie 85 Cadets...87 and 89 in On my Own...now you can't go thru a drill without seeing it come out of nowhere with no real meaning for the show...anyway... I REALLY enjoy all you r thoughts and views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingusmonk Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 This thread motivated me to accomplish something today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bccadet09 Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 I believe there is yet to be another corps to innovate as far as Star of Indiana 1993. I don't think any corps has gotten that far today, not even The Cadets. That's my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommytimp Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Heh, I don't fall for the manipulation. I listen to the music on it's own merits without being swayed by the symbolism. So you do drum corps shows with your eyes closed? But seriously, every show is manipulation-getting your eyes to go here for the guard trick, staging the hornline so you can hear this, et cetera. Good manipulation = good show. Bad manipulation = bad show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 So you do drum corps shows with your eyes closed?But seriously, every show is manipulation-getting your eyes to go here for the guard trick, staging the hornline so you can hear this, et cetera. Good manipulation = good show. Bad manipulation = bad show. Actually, I purposefully look away from where we are manipulated to look. It's a useful thing to do when checking out corps for the second or so time. There's always something going on besides the focus. And yes, sometimes I do close my eyes to just soak in the sound. 8-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoobieATL Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 This thread motivated me to accomplish something today. This has to be the funniest thing I've ever saw. Priceless. That is exactly how I felt in 92. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medeabrass Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 Star 93 was 17 years ago ... and we're still talking about it. I think that show was ahead of it's time - not for the drill, guard, or music, but how it approached designing a show. That show was all about the the Boxes on the judging sheet. MAXIMUM impact for judges. Star didn't care if the fans got the show, they didn't care how loud the horn line was, but what they did care about was being in control of everything in that show. The Cavies made Control look easy and won all those Championships in the 2000s doing it.Star 93 was a shift ... nothing more. IMO here are the shifts that have changed drum corps thus far. Grounded Pit Equipment in front of the corps Asymmetrical Drill 128 corps members Dance in the Guard Body Movement B flat horns Amps 150 corps members Oh God, I didn't want to comment on this thread, but you are so far from the truth on some of your assertions that I feel compelled to rebut and clarify. I could make this really long, but in short, '93 was NOT about the judges for us. If it was, we would NOT have taken as many chances as we did. [ahhh heck, I'm rolling...this is going to be long] [/oops] If anything, the body movement in particular very likely cost us a championship instead of earning us a shot at one. It's very hard to make that stuff as clean as marching. If the judging community was ready to evaluate it, then they wouldn't have hired our visual coordinator Phillip Burton to give them a workshop on the subject in '94. All it takes is one judge who is viscerally opposed to something different like body movement or no "ballz loud moments" until the midway point, for your one shot to be blown out of the water. Second, you are right in stating that we were in control. WE WERE IN CONTROL OF PURE UNADULTERATED RAGE!!! in the same way that Medea was in control of hers as she plotted the vengeful murder of her children and her husband's new bride only allowing the pent up energy to manifest itself kinetically in a few brief carnage-filled moments. This wasn't by accident!!! It was designed into the show and we were taught to perform it that way...to be more accurate, it was designed into Barber's original...listen to it if you haven't. Lastly, (and this part is my opinion) if you are going to design a show to play to the boxes on the sheet, then you must manipulate the music so that certain "compulsaries" are met. I think a major symptom of this approach is very disjointed music that is either very untrue to the original or just flat out original music. I think Jimmer's arrangements were more pure and close to the originals than just about anything going on in the activity at the time or since. The visual was simply an interpretation of the product he gave us. I won't claim that Star '93 contributed to any other shifts or played any important roles in drum corps history. As someone else noted, dancing and body movement had been going on in DCI for sometime previous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medeabrass Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 (edited) removed: already stated by others Edited June 23, 2010 by Medeabrass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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