Brasslines

[2000Cadet]

You are correct The Contra line for 1980 Spirit of Atalnta was 8 players and they were probably the main reason that horn line was the loudest evah. I caught just the Contra line warming up outside Ga tech for the show there in 1980. Just those 8 Gentlemen COULD BRING THE PAIN !!!!!!

Lol, and I'll never forget listening to one of the judges on the 2000 DVD at the end of our show telling the Tubas to take it easy. And there was only 10.

Also, don't take it as my complaining about large tuba lines...I'm just saying.

[Jocko the Wonder Llama]

Why doen't anyone ever propose less percussion, more bras

Do we really need more bras on the field?

[BRASSO]

Why doen't anyone ever propose less percussion, more bras AND more guard? Just something about 35 or more girls on the field... er and guys.

I 'm sort of surprised that a proposal for " more bras " has not taken full shape yet. But with all the proposals flying left and right, they probably havn't gotten around to this just yet. I like the idea. But only in the pre show. Lets see how the use of more bras work there first.

Edited June 19, 2010 by BRASSO

[Perry S]

Lol, and I'll never forget listening to one of the judges on the 2000 DVD at the end of our show telling the Tubas to take it easy. And there was only 10.

Also, don't take it as my complaining about large tuba lines...I'm just saying.

Just think (me fantasizing) if they had 16 Contras at Spirit in 1980 all of the same quality player Holy #### I couldn't Imagine.

[Bruckner8]

What are the brassline number for 2010?

I only have a definitive 20 contras from Madison.

Side question: Does it matter anymore? With the addition of synths can a corp afford to put more say, guard, on the field and have still have the musical power of a 80+ member line.

I already addressed this earlier today:

http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/forums/inde...t&p=2808345

[KeepItReal]

Did anyone here a difference on the low end between the 3 C's last night?

[Jim Clark]

You are correct The Contra line for 1980 Spirit of Atlanta was 8 players and they were probably the main reason that horn line was the loudest evah. I caught just the Contra line warming up outside GA tech for the show there in 1980. Just those 8 Gentlemen COULD BRING THE PAIN !!!!!!

My favorite story from those days. I wasn't a marching member; I was on the opposite side of the front sideline (and have the tinnitus to prove it).

Spirit's contras had worked out all of their staggered breathing counts for the show in order to keep that wall of sound going.

I asked one of the guys in the contra line, "How long can you sustain a note at maximum volume?"

His reply, "Maximum Volume? Almost two counts."

[Bruckner8]

These larger tuba lines just kinda look cool but I haven't noticed a difference in sound.

That's the point...larger tuba lines are needed for large brass lines. As hornlines get bigger, you need more tubas to balance it out, and thus not notice the LACK of them.

Let's do some math, and talk about some physics. Human hearing is designed in such a way that it hears frequencies in certain ranges (higher) better than others. Also, the further away from the source a listener is, the volume is lost in an exponential fashion (The Inverse Square Law) In other words, brass instruments have to play 4x as loud when moved away 2x the distance. Imagine the first row of stands being 160' from the front sideline,with the tubas standing on the front sideline. If the tubas move to the BACK sideline (320' away, 2x 160') they will have to play 4x louder to be MEASURED as equally loud. That's if we use a decibel meter, b/c human hearing doesn't even CARE about low sounds...humans will still PERCEIVE the tubas as LESS LOUD, even if the players manage to quadruple their effort! So the tubas actually have to use MORE than 4x the effort to get the human audience to AGREE that they are PERCEIVING the sound as equally loud!

And that's only the first row of stands. Craziness.

And that's assuming we actually care about the quality of the sound. If we want to do it the way 1979/80 Spirit did it (close to the front, hardly moving, blasting like bass trombone players), we could go with less players because that quality will cut through. Fortunately, drum corps got away from that awful sound very quickly.

Then we have the problem of the vastness of our performance spaces: Outdoors, or domes. We don't have the luxury of a hall to help us with projecting the low end. THIS IS THE BIGGEST FACTOR in determining how many low brass you need/want. For if you want to "feel surrounded" by the tuba sound (like listening to an orchestral contrabass section + tuba + contrabasson), and you're playing outdoors, you either need lots of them, or you need to electronically enhance them.

Here is the math on the ratio of tubas to entire hornline size over the years. In the early 80s, SCV used 10 contras for a 60 member hornline. later it become 12 for 64, a very good standard, followed by almost everyone throughout the 90s and 00s. Here are the good ratios over the years.

10/60 = 16.7% (early 80s SCV,and others)

12/64 = 18.8% (standard 64 member hornlines late 80s/90s/00s)

14/72 = 19.4% (Phantom in the 90s when they had 72 horns)

16/80 = 20.0% (modern setup for 5-6 corps)

20/84 = 23.8% (2010 Madison)

There's a very good trend in there, that matches the physical necessity (and experience of the caption heads): If the hornline grows, the lowest voices (tubas) must grow "even more" to compensate for the extra loudness of the rest of the hornline.

Everyone seems to be in agreement that hornlines using larger ratios of tubas tend to "sound really good."

Check this out:

12/76 = 15.8% (2009 SCV and BD!)

Oops...they were enhanced by the synths....so it's OK!

We're headed in the OPPOSITE direction now, back to the 70s, when hornlines of 60 and 64 had only *8* contras (13.3% and 12.5%).

Not a good trend. I can see it now, where the synth player is decoupled from the pit, and spends most if their time with the hornline (warmup, sectional), providing the low end with much less cost and effort than an appropriately-size tuba section. From some of the responses in this thread ("I can't tell the difference" to "it doesn't matter"), tubas may be on the way out.

(Other factors in deciding the number of tubas needed: How often do you want them behind midfield? What kind of music do you play? Does the arranger even know how to use tubas to their best advantage, or just treat them as "low baris?")

[SuperSaderFan]

Boston Crusaders 80 solid brass players

24 Top

16 middle

24 low

16 bottom

[wesleyrp]

I 'm sort of surprised that a proposal for " more bras " has not taken full shape yet. But with all the proposals flying left and right, they probably havn't gotten around to this just yet. I like the idea. But only in the pre show. Lets see how the use of more bras work there first.

Hey u should rename yourself "Bra"-so...

My take on 20 Tubas/Contras- - Really? We'll see if there's a difference or it's a Brown Note Deluxe!!!

Wes P