Misconception about placements...

[Carolina09Spirit]

I'm not starting this thread to call anybody out, or cause a huge argument.

But...I've noticed a LOT here lately that a lot of people have the wrong mindset of where a corps should be placed and why. I seen a reply to a post about Academy that I made. I asked the question: What am I missing from Academy that should prove to me that they're good enough to make Finals. A reply I got was "I love Academy's music this year, that's why."

Ok, that's my point. There's a difference between "liking" a corps and thinking they should make the top 12, than actually realizing the potential for a corps to make the top 12, that's not necessarily your favorite. I don't know of any other way to say it than that. I may not be the biggest fan of The Cadets, but that doesn't mean I just count them out of their deserved placement come Finals. On the flip side, I may have been a huge fan of Spirit last year, but I didn't just say they should make Finals all because they were my favorite. I realized their struggles, and understood why they didn't make Finals.

And before someone replies and says what I think they'll say, I'll go ahead and answer the future question:

I realize that what we say doesn't make ANY difference on the judges decision, but at least put a little thought into why you think a corps should place here, or place there.

[bawker]

There are certain truths in our activity:

-Haters gonna hate.

-Gold Bond cures all.

-and, finally: homers for corps don't need more rationalization for the placement they give than them just plain preferring said corps. It takes a lot to separate the objective from the subjective . . .especially during the season. There's a reason people bleed certain colors on here.

[Room_101]

The drum corps audience wants three things:

1. Loud noises.

2. Music they recognize.

3. Loud noises.

If a group doesn't have that, they shouldn't win. If a group does, they should win.

Case in point: Phantom 2003. Any musician who has spent any of his life playing professionally will tell you that this is one of the most blatantly offensive hornlines in the history of the activity...yet for a great majority of people, this hornline is their FAVORITE! The music is "pretty," and boy is it loud. But man, those are some gross sounds.

The point I'm trying to make is that people don't often understand the difference the EXCELLENCE of a group and the ENTERTAINMENT factor of a group. A lot of fans create their rankings based on how much they enjoy shows, while judges base it on execution, possibility for growth, and whatever they think "GE" means on that particular night.

[Carolina09Spirit]

The drum corps audience wants three things:

1. Loud noises.

2. Music they recognize.

3. Loud noises.

If a group doesn't have that, they shouldn't win. If a group does, they should win.

Case in point: Phantom 2003. Any musician who has spent any of his life playing professionally will tell you that this is one of the most blatantly offensive hornlines in the history of the activity...yet for a great majority of people, this hornline is their FAVORITE! The music is "pretty," and boy is it loud. But man, those are some gross sounds.

The point I'm trying to make is that people don't often understand the difference the EXCELLENCE of a group and the ENTERTAINMENT factor of a group. A lot of fans create their rankings based on how much they enjoy shows, while judges base it on execution, possibility for growth, and whatever they think "GE" means on that particular night.

Exactly...a person could look at from either standpoint. But regardless, the fine line is still there, and no matter if they're judging off excellence or entertainment, they still have to take what each corps gives them, rather than just saying "Ok, I'll slip my favorite into the top 12."

[OICMR corps]

And then there is the standard; XXXX D&B Corps should place higher because they work so hard. It seems a little unfair that a well designed show can sometimes beat a more entertaining show but the members in ALL corps work hard, the judges know what they are doing.

I have a favorite show every year that I force myself to understand that a score does not define it (SCV last year, maybe Bluu or BK this year). There is one trophy but many different accomplishments by many of the corps.

[BRASSO]

The drum corps audience wants three things:

1. Loud noises.

2. Music they recognize.

3. Loud noises.

If a group doesn't have that, they shouldn't win. If a group does, they should win.

Case in point: Phantom 2003. Any musician who has spent any of his life playing professionally will tell you that this is one of the most blatantly offensive hornlines in the history of the activity...yet for a great majority of people, this hornline is their FAVORITE! The music is "pretty," and boy is it loud. But man, those are some gross sounds.

The point I'm trying to make is that people don't often understand the difference the EXCELLENCE of a group and the ENTERTAINMENT factor of a group. A lot of fans create their rankings based on how much they enjoy shows, while judges base it on execution, possibility for growth, and whatever they think "GE" means on that particular night.

The most lergendary Corps of all time selected by the fans did not play " loud ". ( 84 Cadets )..... Phantom Regiment of 2008 played " loud ".... but SCV 89, another Cops selected by fans ( some in the DCI theatre poll as the most legendary Corps of all time ) did not play " loud ". As a matter of fact they ended their show played about as softly as one can play musically.

It is a myth that fans just want " loud ". a few do....but most don't. The " loudest " Corps last year was the Blue Devils, No other Corps was close in terms of volume. Were they the hands down favorite of the fans who love volume ? No. It didn't appear so.

Edited July 8, 2010 by BRASSO

[wesleyrp]

There are certain truths in our activity:

-Haters gonna hate.

-Gold Bond cures all.

-and, finally: homers for corps don't need more rationalization for the placement they give than them just plain preferring said corps. It takes a lot to separate the objective from the subjective . . .especially during the season. There's a reason people bleed certain colors on here.

But........only the Green Bottle of Gold Bond!!!!!

Wes P

[ShortAndFast]

I have a favorite show every year that I force myself to understand that a score does not define it (SCV last year, maybe Bluu or BK this year). There is one trophy but many different accomplishments by many of the corps.

Completely agree. I think one of the big milestones for me as a drum corps fan was figuring out that an awesome show is its own reward. SCV last year was an outstanding show and I loved it, but I had no argument with how the judges scored it. You can do a lot of things right in design, entertainment, performance that make a show great for the audience, but still not have the excellence needed to win.

There have definitely been years where I completely agreed with the winner at finals, but had no desire to stay and see their encore performance. 2007 was a great example - I would happily have watched another run of the 4-7 group, but I had no interest in seeing anybody in the top 3 again despite their obvious excellence.

[Bruckner8]

I'm in possession of all 9 judging sheets for 2010. The only thing close to "entertainment" is in the description of Effect, and both Vis and Music have the EXACT SAME DESCRIPTION:

"Evaluate the effectiveness of the program and the performers. The ability to maintain a connection to the audience through a combination of components contributes to effect. The performers are measured in part through excellence but, more significantly, in their ability to communicate their product to the audience."

I guess the question for the OP is: Is it possible to connect with an audience and still not be entertained?

[TerriTroop]

As a Trooper honk, I clearly would like them to make finals (or even move up) this year. But that doesn't mean I think they automatically deserve a spot just because they are my fave. I'm pretty pragmatic about it, so that's why you won't see me getting into many arguments here about placements and predictions. I've seen the predictions and current standings, and that's cool. I'm certainly not upset about it because the season's not over until 11:30 p.m. or so on August 14.

Someone else brought up Phantom 2003. That is one of my favorite shows. Do I hear the problems in the hornline? Absolutely. Do I care? Not really. Something about that show - and the way the kids bought into it and sold it - reaches into my heart and makes me very happy. I have no connections whatsoever to PR or any 2003 members, it's just the show that gets me. Same with Madison 1992 and Crossmen 1992, and a whole host of others from the 80's to the now.

Anyway, I don't think we can paint any of us fans (or fanatics) with a singular paint brush. We're human and we sometimes let our emotions deepen the coloring of our rose colored glasses a little too much.