Misdirected Hostility

[ShortAndFast]

I can't say I have disagreed very much when look at recaps of shows I have attended. And I like the shows of today, musically as well as visually.

Fair enough. Personally, I find Music Effect one of the more inscrutable captions. I don't usually have much trouble understanding why, say, brass scores are what they are. I often like the music in today's shows, and find programs every year that I think are very musically effective, but I often am completely wrong about how a given program will be assessed in Music Effect.

You are a band director and I am not, so perhaps the "language" of the caption comes more easily to you.

[Scottishfan]

Oh people. Can't we all just get along???

Kumbayah mi lord kumbayah...

[Scottishfan]

More seriously, BD are a very good modern era drum corps. There are other very good modern era drum corps.

My favourite Devils show of all time is probably 1982, but they wouldn't win if they put that show on this year so they do something that they think might. That is good management planning. Other corps are trying to do similar things but haven't been quite as successful recently.

Personally I want Phantom to win it all but they probably won't. Do I think judges get things wrong? Yes. But they get things right as well.

[Jeff Ream]

How interesting Jeff, that the previous posts which are specious and flamebaiting are ignored by you? How about booing, is booing becoming! Sad...the Therapy Cabal, all that's missing is Dr Phil and a "breakthrough"!

I called you oput, because you come here and claim how you are above that, tout your resume etc...then do exactly what you say you are above.

I've never condoned booing...do your research. And maybe I do hit the report button on others, but I like you, and wanted to give you a break before i hit the button?

as for BD....if they had a great musical package, I'd be all over them. Sadly, I haven't felt that way, except 2006, since 1999

[Jeff Ream]

BD designs to win - their designs reflects what they believe will be rewarded by the judges. Especially in the visual captions, they've gotten it exactly right the last few years. If the judges start looking for something different, BD will change their shows to ones that max out the new criteria.

I definitely am interested to see what comes of Cesario's promised review of the adjudication criteria.

if anything, it shows GE gets too much weight, and visual dominates

[Jeff Ream]

Mmm... Not really. The animosity toward BD in the 2000's and Cadets in the 1980's is different. It's not just about people wanting to take down #1. If your hypothesis were the true, then the BD dynasty of the '70s and '80s would have been equally hated, and they weren't. If you were right, then people would have been rooting against the Cadets in the '90s and early 2000's, and they weren't (though it's not arguably that fans were rooting against Hopkins).

And the most glaring example that disproves your theory - SCV in the '70s and '80s. They have never been hated the way BD and Cadets have in different eras.

The answer is really very simple. Fans hate these corps because they perceive these corps are dismissive of their wants and preferences. (I'm not going to get into arguing whether BD and Cadets really ARE dismissive of their fans. I'm just saying that's the perception.) To go further, fans perceive BD's and Cadets' motivation for being dismissive to be different. With Cadets, especially in the '80s, the resentment was due to the feeling that Cadets were being artistically arrogant...forcing the average fan to experience something he/she didn't understand or like. The fans didn't want to take the medicine, even if the Cadets (or at least their leadership) said it was good for them.

With BD, the resentment is connected to the perception that BD's #1 goal is to win at all costs and that they will do whatever they must to whore themselves to the judges. This is a longstanding complaint about BD, but the hatred has never come to a head this way because they haven't had this kind of dominance since the '80s...and arguably they've NEVER had this kind of dominance since SCV and Cadets were always challenging them in the '80s. The issue now is that fans believe BD has so effectively ingraciated itself to judges and to the scoring system that the there's really no one being allowed to challenge them. And bottom line, the feeling from the fans is that this perceived approach by BD is tantamount to turning their backs on the average fan.

Putting it simply from my point of view, I'm just frustrated with BD. This could be a very enjoyable show, but it's not. Their chop shop, close-it-in approach to drum corps bores me. And what exacerbates the situation is that they have inserted snippets of very enjoyable past BD shows, which you want to engage with and immerse yourself in, but you can't because there's never more than a minute's worth of anything. But this approach is lauded in the scoring system. It's what works. So yes...I suppose you can blame the judges for awarding this approach. But you can also blame BD because they know they're alienating a lot of fans and they continue to do what they're doing.

And guess what? Judges don't have fans. The corps do. So my argument, in response to the OP, would be that BD does, indeed, have some responsibility here. Judges...not so much.

[Jeff Ream]

Like I said before I dont think there is a single person on this board that "hates" the kids. Of all the things people may not like about BD, or any other corps for that matter, IT IS NEVER THE KIDS!!!!!

but....the honks ( insert corps name) will say the "haters" are hurting the kids.

I don't condone booing, but I know why it happens...people feel they have no other way to voice their views.

and you want real BD hatred...imagine they win 2008.

I may have booed that one

[Jeff Ream]

The whole judging DCI system is subjective - maybe we need to go back to the tick system. Oh wait, BD dominated with that system too. I think visual and music should be 50/50 - I get that horn people and percussion people might want music too have a little more weight, but being a colorguard person I could say that I think visual should be weighed even more than music.

BD is great this year with no real weakness, but there is still a whole month until Finals and anything is possible. .

the tick system was just as subjective if not moreso. there was no universal agreed upon definition of a tick

[Jeff Ream]

as to GE, pretty much any sheet is based on the triad of effect:

intellectual

aesthetic

emotional

really, I feel emotional is the one left out of the equation most of the time

[trumpetcam]

as to GE, pretty much any sheet is based on the triad of effect:

intellectual

aesthetic

emotional

really, I feel emotional is the one left out of the equation most of the time

I tend to agree with you here. I just think that BD has a different sense of what emotional means than what many of us want. Most of us want a Phantom or Crown type gorgeous moment that brings a tear with its beauty. But emotion has many sleeves, and BD takes it often to a very different place. Sometimes its absurd, sometimes its quirky, sometimes its preposterous... But, those are emotions as well and even though it may not touch the part of our soul we all crave, its an emotional connection nonetheless.

How's that for getting deep on a sunday night?