Misdirected Hostility

[boxingfred]

Mmm... Not really. The animosity toward BD in the 2000's and Cadets in the 1980's is different. It's not just about people wanting to take down #1. If your hypothesis were the true, then the BD dynasty of the '70s and '80s would have been equally hated, and they weren't. If you were right, then people would have been rooting against the Cadets in the '90s and early 2000's, and they weren't (though it's not arguably that fans were rooting against Hopkins).

And the most glaring example that disproves your theory - SCV in the '70s and '80s. They have never been hated the way BD and Cadets have in different eras.

The answer is really very simple. Fans hate these corps because they perceive these corps are dismissive of their wants and preferences. (I'm not going to get into arguing whether BD and Cadets really ARE dismissive of their fans. I'm just saying that's the perception.) To go further, fans perceive BD's and Cadets' motivation for being dismissive to be different. With Cadets, especially in the '80s, the resentment was due to the feeling that Cadets were being artistically arrogant...forcing the average fan to experience something he/she didn't understand or like. The fans didn't want to take the medicine, even if the Cadets (or at least their leadership) said it was good for them.

With BD, the resentment is connected to the perception that BD's #1 goal is to win at all costs and that they will do whatever they must to whore themselves to the judges. This is a longstanding complaint about BD, but the hatred has never come to a head this way because they haven't had this kind of dominance since the '80s...and arguably they've NEVER had this kind of dominance since SCV and Cadets were always challenging them in the '80s. The issue now is that fans believe BD has so effectively ingraciated itself to judges and to the scoring system that the there's really no one being allowed to challenge them. And bottom line, the feeling from the fans is that this perceived approach by BD is tantamount to turning their backs on the average fan.

Putting it simply from my point of view, I'm just frustrated with BD. This could be a very enjoyable show, but it's not. Their chop shop, close-it-in approach to drum corps bores me. And what exacerbates the situation is that they have inserted snippets of very enjoyable past BD shows, which you want to engage with and immerse yourself in, but you can't because there's never more than a minute's worth of anything. But this approach is lauded in the scoring system. It's what works. So yes...I suppose you can blame the judges for awarding this approach. But you can also blame BD because they know they're alienating a lot of fans and they continue to do what they're doing.

And guess what? Judges don't have fans. The corps do. So my argument, in response to the OP, would be that BD does, indeed, have some responsibility here. Judges...not so much.

THIS!

[Triple Forte]

IMO, because they think everyone wants them to fail and hates the corps/kids.

personally, I just want them to musically entertain me

[Lance]

DCI scoring is ridiculous enough to begin with. Don't bother with people who go out of their way to hate top groups in any activity. They're always going to exist, and trying to engage in rational discussion with them just makes more.

[ContraFart]

IMO, because they think everyone wants them to fail and hates the corps/kids.

personally, I just want them to musically entertain me

Like I said before I dont think there is a single person on this board that "hates" the kids. Of all the things people may not like about BD, or any other corps for that matter, IT IS NEVER THE KIDS!!!!!

[jmc5682]

What I am saying is.....why place so many points in the most subjective categories? The members are bringing these shows to life....and are working darn hard to do so. Put more points in the technical achievement categories....which is obviously directly related to the performers ability to execute/perform.

Please tell me what is so unfair and awful about that ?

The whole judging DCI system is subjective - maybe we need to go back to the tick system. Oh wait, BD dominated with that system too. I think visual and music should be 50/50 - I get that horn people and percussion people might want music too have a little more weight, but being a colorguard person I could say that I think visual should be weighed even more than music.

BD is great this year with no real weakness, but there is still a whole month until Finals and anything is possible. .

[Big Bad Bari]

Mmm... Not really. The animosity toward BD in the 2000's and Cadets in the 1980's is different. It's not just about people wanting to take down #1. If your hypothesis were the true, then the BD dynasty of the '70s and '80s would have been equally hated, and they weren't. If you were right, then people would have been rooting against the Cadets in the '90s and early 2000's, and they weren't (though it's not arguably that fans were rooting against Hopkins).

And the most glaring example that disproves your theory - SCV in the '70s and '80s. They have never been hated the way BD and Cadets have in different eras.

The answer is really very simple. Fans hate these corps because they perceive these corps are dismissive of their wants and preferences. (I'm not going to get into arguing whether BD and Cadets really ARE dismissive of their fans. I'm just saying that's the perception.) To go further, fans perceive BD's and Cadets' motivation for being dismissive to be different. With Cadets, especially in the '80s, the resentment was due to the feeling that Cadets were being artistically arrogant...forcing the average fan to experience something he/she didn't understand or like. The fans didn't want to take the medicine, even if the Cadets (or at least their leadership) said it was good for them.

With BD, the resentment is connected to the perception that BD's #1 goal is to win at all costs and that they will do whatever they must to whore themselves to the judges. This is a longstanding complaint about BD, but the hatred has never come to a head this way because they haven't had this kind of dominance since the '80s...and arguably they've NEVER had this kind of dominance since SCV and Cadets were always challenging them in the '80s. The issue now is that fans believe BD has so effectively ingraciated itself to judges and to the scoring system that the there's really no one being allowed to challenge them. And bottom line, the feeling from the fans is that this perceived approach by BD is tantamount to turning their backs on the average fan.

Putting it simply from my point of view, I'm just frustrated with BD. This could be a very enjoyable show, but it's not. Their chop shop, close-it-in approach to drum corps bores me. And what exacerbates the situation is that they have inserted snippets of very enjoyable past BD shows, which you want to engage with and immerse yourself in, but you can't because there's never more than a minute's worth of anything. But this approach is lauded in the scoring system. It's what works. So yes...I suppose you can blame the judges for awarding this approach. But you can also blame BD because they know they're alienating a lot of fans and they continue to do what they're doing.

And guess what? Judges don't have fans. The corps do. So my argument, in response to the OP, would be that BD does, indeed, have some responsibility here. Judges...not so much.

So in an activity where the BIG draw is that the units compete, you are saying... do not work your program in a manner that benefits you in the eyes of those who judge you? Are you saying that it would be in the best interest of the Blue Devils or any other corps for that matter to turn their backs on the judges and go for crowd appeal? Don't get me wrong... I feel there is a great deal of crowd appeal in these shows... (winged victory is an exception lol) I am also quite suprised that people are just now learning that the BD organization is all about winning DCI titles... Do you know the history? Do you know who left SCV in a huff and went to a little drum and bell corps that also had a drill team and turned it into a full on drum corps? Ummmmm I can tell you for a fact that the Blue Devils were redefined at that time for the specific purpose of beating SCV... So ummmmm why the shock and suprise? Oh and how many of you know that the Blue Devils fund a "B" corps, a "C" corps a wind ensemble and a couple of other organizations as well... So with all your hatred you are spewing... you are spewing it at arguably the one organization that has a positive effect on more local children and young adults than ANY OTHER CORPS!!!!!!!!!!! Good going folks, and all because they no longer want to financially support the corps you love... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... When times get tight for you, and your "BINGO" (JOB) is in jeopardy lets see if you try something to make things better for yourself, or if you decide to hell with yourself, let me support someone who isn't doing it for themselves...

Oh, and stop making me defend Dave Gibbs we never really got along all that well when we marced together!

Edited July 11, 2010 by Big Bad Bari

[ContraFart]

Could you explain and clarify this notion a bit more?

Sure, there are people who say that BD's demand is not as much as other corps at the top, that they concentrate their visual demand into 2 or 3 big really difficult moves and have easy drill the rest of time. Also that the majority of the brass playing is done when either moving to easy drill, or not moving at all. My personal gripe (as many of you are sick of hearing about) is the fact that they segregate the contras from the main form, therefore not putting the demand on 100% of the hornline. Variations of this argument is the reason that many people say corps x is better and/or more deserving of higher scores than BD

[CT-Horn]

It's the judges you should hate and not the performers or G7 or Hopkins or Gibbs.

The judges are the reason for your anger. As a past performer in DCI, I would not ever think of booing any corps for winning or for being beat by another corps.

It's July 10th... And last time I checked, an 88 doesn't win the world title.

So get over it. Grow up and quit hating one corps for winning one show in early July...

For all of you math wizards, what is 88-85.7 ?

Answer: 2.3. Meaning... Not 3 points.

That spread can be .1 tomorrow.

Get over it and hate the judges if you must.

But, respect all DCI performers by never booing.

And really... Grow up.

We always hear about not boing the kids, ya know what, they are doing a lot worse things on the bus rides every night and at rookie talent night, so don't worry about the kids. Plus, with the exception of the few corps stealing some 16 year olds from Open Class corps, the kids are a little older than that. There are plenty of 19-22 year olds out there every night saying and hearing a lot worse than a few people booing.

Boo all you want, it is the fault of the G7 corps, not the judges. besides are your booing the kids or Hopkins, Gibbs and the rest of them?

Boo enough and maybe they'll get the point too.

[BRASSO]

We always hear about not boing the kids, ya know what, they are doing a lot worse things on the bus rides every night and at rookie talent night, so don't worry about the kids. Plus, with the exception of the few corps stealing some 16 year olds from Open Class corps, the kids are a little older than that. There are plenty of 19-22 year olds out there every night saying and hearing a lot worse than a few people booing.

Boo all you want, it is the fault of the G7 corps, not the judges. besides are your booing the kids or Hopkins, Gibbs and the rest of them?

Boo enough and maybe they'll get the point too.

Nobody boo INT.

If you do, they'll be no INT and they'll be no relief in sight.

[84BDsop]

We always hear about not boing the kids, ya know what, they are doing a lot worse things on the bus rides every night and at rookie talent night, so don't worry about the kids. Plus, with the exception of the few corps stealing some 16 year olds from Open Class corps, the kids are a little older than that. There are plenty of 19-22 year olds out there every night saying and hearing a lot worse than a few people booing.

Boo all you want, it is the fault of the G7 corps, not the judges. besides are your booing the kids or Hopkins, Gibbs and the rest of them?

Boo enough and maybe they'll get the point too.

Just because you might be a college senior doesn't mean booing can't have any effect on you. Even if you tell youself on teh surface"they're only booin gthe score, not us," deep down, there IS a little kernal that thinks it IS about the corps.

Regardless of age or experience, these are still flesh and blood people...not robots...in ANY corps, not just BD. What about the kids in 92 Star? The cheers were louder because Star lost...not because Cavies won...the hate was just as stupid and palpable then as it is now.

And what if a corps -- let's say a young Open class with a couple of years on the field -- becomes overly dominant to the point where they start getting the same sort of "I'm booing the score, not the corps" BS time and again? Do you really think any parent's going to put their kid through that? That could kill the corps due to the "FANS" driving kids away and the corps folding....a worst-case scenario, to be sure....but if that were to happen, you can't blame the G7, or DCI, or even the corps....you can only blame yourself for believing you have no effect on the members.

You're a #### fool to think otherwise.