State of drum corps manifesto

[Tez]

Incorrect. To the fan, their perception (of which they form their opinion) is reality.

I'm saying that these things don't prove that the shows are less exciting. Many other factors can have an effect on audience reaction and size.

[Scoutnout]

I voted years ago. I have not attended a show since 2004.

Why bother? The shows are just WGI shows expanded and with live music. At best,they are BOA shows done very well. If I want to see excellence in those realms, I can attend their shows.

The kids marching now are better trained and better prepared to produce their product than ever, but I no longer care about the product.

As I tell my students: "Art started in the heart, not the head."

When crowds no longer react from emotion, but rather from intellectual appreciation, I feel we have lost something special.

Do you also tell your students that art is subjective. How about if it is appreciated on ANY level. Emotional or intellectual the subjective matter has done its job on some level, and done it well.

[93Bluecoat]

Finally a response that makes sense. Thank you! No, I'm not looking for someone to tell me I'm wrong, I want someone to prove it (which would be hard for sure, its an opinion afterall).

I have enjoyed shows over the past decade....probably too many! I've seen a steady decline in aesthetic value in the shows and that's where my rub is however. I like 2 minute long drum features (BK '93, VK '88, '89). I like color guards that take chances with genuinely exposed long segments of difficult work. I love it when horn lines move the stands "a half mile toward Tuscalusa". I love it when drum lines actually have music for 10 minutes of the show, instead of 6 1/2. I love it when the drill makes sense for the viewer, not the drill writer. I liked how tension and release was approached for no other reason than an aesthetic response....it feeds in to why we enjoy music and the arts in the first place. My observations are shared by perhaps more than you care to acknowledge.

I actually like the way corps are utilizing A&E to produce high quality depth of sound (although it is becoming evident that not all corps have good sounds guys, as it widely varying from corps to corps). Many of the current parts of the evolution of the idiom are excellent and shouldn't change. I don't know if you want me to admit that some of what I've mentioned is a generalization? Not all of the shows are awful. However, the design philosophy is.

I can garner enjoyment from competition. I still love checking the scores and reading reviews. I still love the Bluecoats organization, many of the same wonderful people run that organization and I want them to do well. I've mentioned that I don't think the entertainment value (this is the design philosophy I mentioned) matches the prices they are charging now. I'm not going to go completely away, just probably not as many now.

DW

I'm sorry, what response are you expecting to hear? I can tell you how genuinely moved I was by the shows I saw at Finals in 2008. Heck I wrote almost ten thousand words in review of it here on DCP; you can read it in the Review forum. But what I have to say isn't going to change your mind, is it? We have a difference of opinion on what is ultimately a subjective matter. I am still immensely entertained by what I see on the field each year, whereas you are not. What response do you think I could provide to resolve this impasse?

Do you want me to tell you that you are wrong? Fine, I will. Shows today are more entertaining than they have ever been, and that's especially true top to bottom. My favorite shows are from the past ten years, some from the past fifteen, but I enjoy hardly any shows older than that. My favorite years for top-to-bottom entertainment have been 2003 and 2006, and I'm awfully excited to see this year's products, based on everything I've been reading. I was lucky enough to see the Blue Stars grand premier, and got a huge rush just from witnessing one corps' standstill. My first show of the 2010 season is on Tuesday. I'm hoping I'll see something to entrance me the way Cavaliers 2002 did, to leave me stunned the way Blue Devils 2004 did, to give me chills the way Blue Knights 2006 did, or something as epic as Phantom 2008. For me, drum corps in the 2000's is better than ever.

If you're still not convinced, then there aren't many more responses I can give you. I've been considering authoring a full rebuttal, and may do so if I have the time this weekend (I've been at work all today). But if my words aren't enough to sway you, then there is little I can say but "maybe you should go enjoy yourself elsewhere". I would never tell anyone to spend money on something they don't value. If you've truly reached the point where drum corps no longer entertains, then the best thing for you may very well be to let it go. I don't say that to be rude or condescending, merely to suggest that in lieu of resolution your best option is likely acceptance.

[Scoutnout]

Do you also tell your students that art is subjective. How about if it is appreciated on ANY level. Emotional or intellectual the subjective matter has done its job on some level, and done it well.

PS: I will agree the shows are more like WGI shows and thats because the designers are mostly all from the WGI arena and many judges are also.

[93Bluecoat]

Ah, and there's the crux right there. We all have different opinions as to what we find entertaining. I can respect 1983 and 1984 for being legendary productions, even while I agree with Lance that I believe other Cadets shows to be more entertaining.

True, my point was that so few seem to have a genuine appreciation for the actual evolution of the activity. We only think what is current (or fresh in our memory) is the best thing out there. There have been some legendary performances in the '00s, but I can honestly say I appreciated them on the same level as other great shows from the '90s, 80s, '70s and 60s. When someone makes an argument that some of their most memorable performances for them have been recent ones, I like to know if they actually have a basis for comparison. So many that are DCI apologists don't seem to have a base of knowledge prior to mid or late 90s.

Just want to know what they compare their opinions to.

DW

[93Bluecoat]

Standing O's aren't really the culture anymore, though. Once upon a time there was a nice long gap between each number, giving fans plenty of time to stand up and cheer. Now the shows are created as one product and designed to carry momentum throughout. DCI events are as much concerts as they are sporting events. I think there have been moments in every contest I've attended where I have wanted to stand up or cheer, but I felt it would be rude to the people around me. Even if I'm totally jazzed by a show, I rarely stand up before the finish (Phantom 2008 comes to mind as an exception, everyone was standing from the moment Will Pitts was "speared" to the end). I think this is actually a perfect example of things being neither better nor worse, just different.

I guess this is actually what I've been looking for from stalwart DCI apologists....an admission that you're attending a "concert" rather than a drum corps competition. An admission that we are no longer witnessing drum corps as an idiom but a concert. I have NEVER thought of a drum corps show as a concert nor would I ever! Its absurd! Why? Because if I want to hear Asphalt Cocktail in "concert" I'll go watch the Michigan State University wind symphony perform it with Kevin Sedatole conducting! If I want to hear Farandole performed, I'll pick the next time the Cincinnati Symphony is performing it and check it out.

Lance mentioned that some of my comments were "sad" earlier. How sad is it that now drum corps has become a passive activity for the audience? I've been moved in concerts before. When MSU premiered "Asphalt Cocktail" last spring, I lept to my feet and took part in a 5 minute standing ovation. Its was incredible....I will openly admit that isn't the norm, just a great rare performance full of emotion. I see so little of that being communicated to the audience from the corps? Why? Poor design philosophy.

DW

[93Bluecoat]

If your consensus comes from DCPers agreeing with you, please know that DCP is a huge running joke amongst the members and staff of DCI drum corps.

I've been there....keep in mind my background (board member, touring staff member, etc). I know what the members and staffers think. This isn't about them though (I seem to keep saying that for all you DCI apologists). This is a consumerism issue. DCI is not producing a quality product that the consumer wants anymore. This is how businesses fail. When a business feels it has no need to expand its customer base, failure begins.

I don't think anyone on here cares what members and staff think about DCP when discussing the microeconomic impact of opportunity costs permeating an oligopoly.

[93Bluecoat]

Yours is a legitimate opinion. Whatever choice you make based on that opinion I and others should respect. I know lots of people who stopped going to shows. For them, the activity lost its appeal in the 70s and 80s - what some now call the golden years. They walked away because they no longer felt that spark. That happens. And it's not always a statement about the current state of the activity. Sometimes, it's just life. What we love in our youth isn't necessarily what we love in our maturity. We change too.

HH

You should read the rest of the thread....again, this has nothing to do with the activity passing anyone by. The fact is, the shows don't reach the fan anymore. I'm not sure how much more I can say this. When the activity (or company) decides that it no longer needs to gain market share (fans), it is doomed....probably not now, probably not in 5 years, but ignoring your consumer will get the activity nowhere.

DW

[Matt_S]

I guess this is actually what I've been looking for from stalwart DCI apologists....an admission that you're attending a "concert" rather than a drum corps competition. An admission that we are no longer witnessing drum corps as an idiom but a concert. I have NEVER thought of a drum corps show as a concert nor would I ever! Its absurd! Why? Because if I want to hear Asphalt Cocktail in "concert" I'll go watch the Michigan State University wind symphony perform it with Kevin Sedatole conducting! If I want to hear Farandole performed, I'll pick the next time the Cincinnati Symphony is performing it and check it out.

Lance mentioned that some of my comments were "sad" earlier. How sad is it that now drum corps has become a passive activity for the audience? I've been moved in concerts before. When MSU premiered "Asphalt Cocktail" last spring, I lept to my feet and took part in a 5 minute standing ovation. Its was incredible....I will openly admit that isn't the norm, just a great rare performance full of emotion. I see so little of that being communicated to the audience from the corps? Why? Poor design philosophy.

DW

You are imbuing the word "concert" with your own connotations, not mine. I attend rock "concerts" monthly, and they are anything but passive. This past season I've seen the ISO perform Mahler 2, I've seen Yuja Wang perform Rach 3, and I saw the debut of the ISO's new organ for Saint-Saens' Organ Symphony. Each performance ended with a five minute standing ovation, the very same which you believe to be so rare. These were all thrilling performances, made no less so by the fact that I had sat silent throughout.

PS Referring to myself and others as "apologists" is condescending, at best. It demeans your position by the fact that you are communicating a lack of respect for mine.

[oldbandguy]

As I stated earlier, I've followed the activity since '75 so when I say I have enjoyed the shows of the past 10 years just as much as any other decade I am able to make a direct comparison.

Everything is subjective!

I've seen "Asphalt Cocktail" performed by a great college band and I loved it, but I know a few others in attendance were simply not fans of this particular Mackey work.

I've also seen "Asphalt Cocktail" performed by the Bluecoats and thought it is was AWESOME.

(And I dare say I think John Mackey would love what they've done with it.) Obviously some, like you, are not as enthusiastic.

I do hope you are sharing in the joy the Bluecoats are feeling tonight. You talked earlier about the great feelings you had with the corps in '92. Believe me, those kids are feeling like that at this very moment.

Edited July 10, 2010 by oldbandguy