State of drum corps manifesto

[ducttapedgerbil]

And I would suggest you check the finals videos in '05 (Cadets), '07 (Bluecoats), and especially Phantom ('08).

I would also point out to you, concerning the Dublin show Tuesday night...it was a record attendance and I would bet that the great MAJORITY of folks attending were NOT attending their first drum corps show. They new what they were coming to see.

and I would bet most were hoping for more...

[ducttapedgerbil]

corps can bring back Gs if they want to.

i'm torn on them because I miss the volume of G horns, but so very few corps could play them well enough (especially wrt intonation) for me to want to listen to. Not so with Bb.

they played them well enough for you when that is what they were playing..... I thought these were excellent musicians??? Shouldn't they be able to get a good sound out of G horns????

Edited July 9, 2010 by ducttapedgerbil

[MikeN]

The only thing that I ever conclude when discussing judging is that judging is ridiculous. lol.

No argument there.

Mike

[93Bluecoat]

Cadets 2010 is easily my favorite show of theirs since 2005.

For the record, my list for favorite Cadets shows is this:

5. Cadets 1990

4. Cadets 2010

4. Cadets 2005

2. Cadets 1997

1. Cadets 1993

There are a lot of great shows this year, IMO. My favorite year for the top 12 in general ever is 1993, and this one is shaping up to be right there.

No 1983? 1984? I mean those two shows may have single handedly changed the activity forever...

DW

[93Bluecoat]

they played them well enough for you when that is what they were playing..... I thought these were excellent musicians??? Shouldn't they be able to get a good sound out of G horns????

The argument against G bugles was that they were hard to play in tune, and that it was hard to recruit band students over to them. Both are flimsy arguments. I spoke with someone recently that marched in both the G and Bb era and he spoke of how it was a terrific challenge for the performer to play in tune. There is no comparison to the resistence....not doubt they produce both a bigger and brighter sound.

[Matt_S]

The only thing I've heard from dissenting opinions is that I should take my ball and head to another game. Again, what kind of business sense does this make for DCI? Especially if there is a consensus that agree with me?

...

The best way to prove my point in this discussion, is to point out that many who disagree have yet to say that the shows of 2010 are truly moving aesthetic experiences that excite them to the point of rabid passion. Instead, a lot of what I've read is, "Hey, you don't get it...it's passed you by....maybe you should go enjoy yourself elsewhere...."

I'm sorry, what response are you expecting to hear? I can tell you how genuinely moved I was by the shows I saw at Finals in 2008. Heck I wrote almost ten thousand words in review of it here on DCP; you can read it in the Review forum. But what I have to say isn't going to change your mind, is it? We have a difference of opinion on what is ultimately a subjective matter. I am still immensely entertained by what I see on the field each year, whereas you are not. What response do you think I could provide to resolve this impasse?

Do you want me to tell you that you are wrong? Fine, I will. Shows today are more entertaining than they have ever been, and that's especially true top to bottom. My favorite shows are from the past ten years, some from the past fifteen, but I enjoy hardly any shows older than that. My favorite years for top-to-bottom entertainment have been 2003 and 2006, and I'm awfully excited to see this year's products, based on everything I've been reading. I was lucky enough to see the Blue Stars grand premier, and got a huge rush just from witnessing one corps' standstill. My first show of the 2010 season is on Tuesday. I'm hoping I'll see something to entrance me the way Cavaliers 2002 did, to leave me stunned the way Blue Devils 2004 did, to give me chills the way Blue Knights 2006 did, or something as epic as Phantom 2008. For me, drum corps in the 2000's is better than ever.

If you're still not convinced, then there aren't many more responses I can give you. I've been considering authoring a full rebuttal, and may do so if I have the time this weekend (I've been at work all today). But if my words aren't enough to sway you, then there is little I can say but "maybe you should go enjoy yourself elsewhere". I would never tell anyone to spend money on something they don't value. If you've truly reached the point where drum corps no longer entertains, then the best thing for you may very well be to let it go. I don't say that to be rude or condescending, merely to suggest that in lieu of resolution your best option is likely acceptance.

[Matt_S]

No 1983? 1984? I mean those two shows may have single handedly changed the activity forever...

DW

Ah, and there's the crux right there. We all have different opinions as to what we find entertaining. I can respect 1983 and 1984 for being legendary productions, even while I agree with Lance that I believe other Cadets shows to be more entertaining.

[garfield]

And I would suggest you check the finals videos in '05 (Cadets), '07 (Bluecoats), and especially Phantom ('08).

I would also point out to you, concerning the Dublin show Tuesday night...it was a record attendance and I would bet that the great MAJORITY of folks attending were NOT attending their first drum corps show. They new what they were coming to see.

We'll finish tabulating our surveys for the Dublin show this weekend, but our initial, cursory count showed pretty clearly that the vast, vast majority of those in attendance were not at their first drum corps show. Our advertising scheme this year was clearly to excite novices and remind the fan-vets that the show was coming. We had 4 bands in the stands but the majority of the rest were well beyond marching, or even college, age.

And to back up what DW witnessed, I was in the stands that night, 5 rows from the box and I watched 99% of the crowd (mostly checking head count). There was not a single moment in 5 "top-12" corps performances where there was crowd enthusiasm enough to warrant a standing-O. The only time the fans stood up was at the finish.

As an aside, I took four people from my office who had never been to a show before. Knew nothing about DC until about 2 months ago when they each watched a DVD I had given them to introduce them to what they were going to see.

Now it was really, REALLY hot in the stands. But by INT all four were gone and never came back.

I don't want to read too much into it but it's for certain that there was not enough excitement to keep them there.

OK, it was hot. And these friends were not musicians or band students. Just regular people whom I'd promised an exciting evening of entertainment sitting in a football stadium. They obviously didn't get that "excitement" part from the experience.

When I asked one how she liked it she said, "We enjoyed it, but we got bored. And it was hot."

Just sayin'

[SCV Biker]

Posts like this are the reason people like you aren't taken seriously

A sense of humor can be found at Wal-Mart in the same aisle as the missing period in your sentence.

As for being taken seriously...the same could be said of younger posters who don't uncheck the "Enable signature" box so they can show off their artsy signatures that consume 1/3 page multiple times in the same thread. Contrary to popular belief, the number of post counts by one's screen name is not an indicator of their DC intelligence or knowledge.

[Matt_S]

And to back up what DW witnessed, I was in the stands that night, 5 rows from the box and I watched 99% of the crowd (mostly checking head count). There was not a single moment in 5 "top-12" corps performances where there was crowd enthusiasm enough to warrant a standing-O. The only time the fans stood up was at the finish.

Standing O's aren't really the culture anymore, though. Once upon a time there was a nice long gap between each number, giving fans plenty of time to stand up and cheer. Now the shows are created as one product and designed to carry momentum throughout. DCI events are as much concerts as they are sporting events. I think there have been moments in every contest I've attended where I have wanted to stand up or cheer, but I felt it would be rude to the people around me. Even if I'm totally jazzed by a show, I rarely stand up before the finish (Phantom 2008 comes to mind as an exception, everyone was standing from the moment Will Pitts was "speared" to the end). I think this is actually a perfect example of things being neither better nor worse, just different.

As an aside, I took four people from my office who had never been to a show before. Knew nothing about DC until about 2 months ago when they each watched a DVD I had given them to introduce them to what they were going to see.

Now it was really, REALLY hot in the stands. But by INT all four were gone and never came back.

I don't want to read too much into it but it's for certain that there was not enough excitement to keep them there.

I don't know when INT was scheduled, was it in the middle of the line-up? If so, then your office mates saw a senior corps perform its first show in the first year it ever toured, an Open Class corps that formed in 2006, a corps in its very first year in World Class, and the Madison Scouts. Without intending any offense I'd claim that the first three are not really the best entertainment that drum corps has to offer. As for the Madison Scouts, well if they weren't enough to keep your friend entertained than that doesn't say much for the retro approach that so many old-schoolers are touting. I know this subject came up in the G7 discussions, with regard to the way DCI shows start off slow and build to the headliners, but I have to wonder if your friends might have stayed if their first impression had been the Bluecoats or the Cavaliers or Crown.