The Other Mike Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 I'll add a few remarks, I have decided not to PAY to attend any shows this year, nor will I buy any souvies. I get more in the lot than I do in the stands, I also get more on DVD's than I do in the stands. When DCI figures out how to charge admission to the "lot", then I will make other plans WHY ? 1) Todays shows are designed to be understood from the box ONLY. If you can't get a ticket between the 45's and 80 rows up, the visual won't make much sense. Years ago, you could understand the show from "allmost" anywhere between the 30's and at almost any level. Not saying it's good or bad, just facts. 2) Too many times, the pit is just too loud for live listening where the DVD's are adjusted somewhat. Why spend money on a ticket when I can spend that money for a DVD ? On DVD's I get the judges viewpoint. On DVD's I get the visual design On DVD's I get the aural pleasures ( with earphones) In the lot I can see the kids up close In the lot I can see and feel the hype In the lot I can get some "in your face" hornlines In the lot I can tell the kids what a great job their doing In the lot I can tell staff members I don't like what they are doing to the activity in a quiet tone and away from the kids "if I feel like it". I'm learning to adjust to reap the best I can for my money. Not all will agree, but not everyones uses common sense either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 I'd change the rules of GE to award "audience effect" - basically give an entertainment score as to how the show reaches the audience. That'll force changes in show design overnight. (And no, I'm not talking about applause-o-meters. If you can find a judge right now to actually interpret GE (something I think is a fairly nebulous concept), then you can find one to critique audience effectiveness.)Mike measuring that is impossible. you'd have to assume that the audience is objective for that...I've been to plenty of shows where home cooking regarding applause is obvious. we disagree over judges who are supposed to be objective in rating a single category...magnify that by 10000000000000 if you try to use a caption called "audience reaction." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 corps can bring back Gs if they want to. i'm torn on them because I miss the volume of G horns, but so very few corps could play them well enough (especially wrt intonation) for me to want to listen to. Not so with Bb. Since the average WC performer is a 19 year old college music major, I'd much rather have them on their "native" brass instrument. (It's true - go look it up. Not you, Lance, but the general "you.") And I still maintain the loudest corps moment I've ever experienced was the 2001 Blue Devils (on Bb's) - the end of I've Got Rhythm was so loud all you could hear was the distortion - literally. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 measuring that is impossible. you'd have to assume that the audience is objective for that...I've been to plenty of shows where home cooking regarding applause is obvious. we disagree over judges who are supposed to be objective in rating a single category...magnify that by 10000000000000 if you try to use a caption called "audience reaction." No different than a hypothetical "General Effect" that accounts for 40% of the score right now. With a subcaption called "repertoire" that actually changes show-to-show, even when the charts don't. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 No different than a hypothetical "General Effect" that accounts for 40% of the score right now. With a subcaption called "repertoire" that actually changes show-to-show, even when the charts don't.Mike It's very different. With GE right now, I don't think anybody questions that it's the judge's own take on the effectiveness of design and performance in music and visual, and that the judge is supposed to rate it based on the rubric in front of them. Asking them to try to read the minds of an entire crowd at Allentown, Denver, or Stanford when the home corps goes on vs. when other corps go on is like asking them to sprout wings and fly to the moon. Unless they're bona fide psychics, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 The only thing that I ever conclude when discussing judging is that judging is ridiculous. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllmerFUDD Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 So what does all this mean? Well, I paid $50 for myself and my girlfriend last night to see a drum corps show (we were excited to be able to walk up and buy such good seats on the 40 yard line near the top) and for the first time in my life, left a show thinking I may not come back to see another. I’ve never left a show and felt like this. I actually felt like I was owed a refund. I’ve always left wanting more, excited about the next time some close scoring groups would compete. Now? Ambivalence. The activity has become a manufactured entity shoved down our throats like so many unwanted products in the free market system. We’re told “It’s ART!” When asked why, its shouted back “BECAUSE WE SAY IT IS!” In reality we (DCI as a whole) now have a product that is cookie cutter, formulaic, uninteresting, and disconnected to its very own market/consumer. Please don’t attribute my ramblings here to me devaluing what the members of each corps are doing. I genuinely am awed by what they are physically doing on the field. The immense talent, hard work, and things that all these kids are learning through the drum corps experience are certainly commendable (for all of us who marched, we all know what we gained). It’s an amazing thing to experience. However, from a purely business perspective, I don’t think I’ll ever pay $50 again to see this product in its current form. Your product is no longer worth what you charge. I hope I’m wrong. I realize there is a counter argument to everything I’ve mentioned in this diatribe. I’ve heard them all and really haven’t heard a compelling argument to the contrary. I hope I don’t sound like angry old drum corps guy because that wasn’t what I was shooting for. Just felt like someone needed to relay some sentiments that are being rumbled rather freely at the last few shows I’ve attended, and wanted to share my own thoughts. First maybe we should ask the question who is Drum Corpst for: 1) Drum Corps is an educational opportunity for the youth. Far beyond music and marching. Drum Corps teaches integrity, effort, team work, excelling, commitment, etc. etc. etc. Drum Corps is first for the youth, the performing members. (Yes a fan base is required for the activity to survive) 2) Drum Corps is a competitive art form, creative, innovative and dynamic. This art form (as all art form) appeals to certain groups (the Fan). As with all art forms they are dynamic and change based on the artist/performers. This change affects the fan base. Some fans may not enjoy where the art form moves to while new fans may be attracted. This is no different that any other art form (Music, Movies, Dress, etc.) Although I may or may not particularly like every program in the last several years and I may think the activity was “more artistic” 35 years ago when I marched and if I ran my own corps I would do things my way but SO WHAT! This is not 35 years ago and I do not run a Drum Corps. Just because I do not think it is at its artistic best. I’ll bet many (perhaps all) of the members do. Its their time, its there artistic expression, It’s their opportunity to leave THEIR mark (Good or Bad) If you don’t enjoy Drum Corps, don’t go but don’t pretend to know what is best for the activity. Read the show reviews; read the post many many many people dig what is going on. Ask the members. It’s not about us old farts. We had our time let them have theirs! It amazes me that someone thinks they can speak for what is good art and what is bad art. My daughter loves Rap and I hate it. So what, who’s right? Art without growth and innovation is not art. When it is “directed” in a particular direction or held in the same place it becomes something less that art. Did you see Crowns show last year or better yet did you witness SCV’s magnificent portrait. Trust me the activity from an art form is just fine. If you don’t like it, check back in 10 years it will be different. Leave the art form to the designers and performers or become a Corps director and create your own vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommytimp Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 I get more in the lot than I do in the stands, I also get more on DVD's than I do in the stands.When DCI figures out how to charge admission to the "lot", then I will make other plans. Nothing to add, just wanted to point out that this reads like an Ogden Nash poem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Other Mike Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Nothing to add, just wanted to point out that this reads like an Ogden Nash poem. but my momma said I wuz uneek As for Mr. Nash, I think he summed up drum corps pretty well with this one line: Progress might have been all right once, but it has gone on too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ducttapedgerbil Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 If kids marching today came on here and bashed stuff from the early 90s like this, it would be interesting to see the reactions. They don't, and it's not because they often don't find the stuff from 2 decades ago to be un-entertaining. Most are respectful of those who came before them even if they don't find the shows invigorating. the important difference is they are not the ones buying the tickets...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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