Rainouts and Refunds

[Grumpy]

I would not follow this advice. First, you cannot be certain that the entity you purchased tickets from is in fact a 501©(3) organization. Second, under current IRS rules, you would need a receipt. Speaking from experience, contact information to provide a receipt is not available for well over half in attendance, and the cost of attempting to issue receipts for "donations" would be expensive and burdensome - especially when it was a purchase of a ticket, not a donation. Third, you did not make a donation. You bought a ticket. The terms of the ticket indicate there are no refunds or exchanges, and no make-up dates if it rains (standard terms on the tickets). If it rains, you cannot decide you didn't purchase a ticket and decide you made a donation. This is no different than purchasing a ticket and deciding not to use it. It does not become a donation.

If you would like to know if the organization sponsor is a 501c3, simply ask them...if they are passing themselves off as such and aren't, THEY are going to get themselves in a world of trouble with the IRS. Secondly, you don't technically need a receipt unless the donation is more than $250; but you do need something to show the donation was made (if you paid by CHECK, a copy of the cancelled check made out to the organization would suffice; if you paid by credit card, a copy of the monthly statement would qualify). Third, if you purchased a ticket and received nothing of value in exchange for it, it's a DONATION. Purchasing a ticket and deciding not to use it is comparing apples to oranges, you could have gone to the show but chose not to...the show was still performed. All of this, of course, would come down to two issues...does the IRS audit the return, and if so does the IRS agree with the taxpayer's interpretation of the law? The worse case scenario is that the IRS would disallow the deduction, the amount would be added to your taxable income and you would have to pay the tax and interest. We're not talking about somebody that bought out the stadium to re-sell the tickets, we're talking about Joe Fan who probably shelled out $150 or so for some tickets for him and his family.

[violet]

As far as bumping corps to put a 'good' corps ahead of them if the weather looks dodgy... good has a lot of meanings.

For some people, it may be the corps they marched with, regardless of the scoring or present ranking.

For the people in the row behind you, it's the 'marching band' their nephew/grandchild is marching with, again regardless of ranking.

At DCI Minnesota last night, the family behind me was about as novice a bunch of event-goers as you could hope to find. While a few people nearby were giving them stinkeye when they kept calling corps 'bands,' a few other people around them helped explain the difference between Colt Cadets and the small junior corps, the DCA all-age corps, what the heck was going on with Bones during Crossmen, and all that. When their relative ages out, they may or may not ever attend an event again. 'Good' to them was 'the group their boy is spending his summer on a bus with.' No more, no less.

Someone is always going to be disappointed somehow.

[SFZFAN]

Nice! Thank you so very much for proving Hopkins, Gibbs, Fiedler, Valenzuela, Glasgow, DeGrauwe, and Smith/Coats correct in their egotistical self righteousness. Apparently there are no "good" corps' below them anyway, so I am sure that the "bad" corps' would be more than happy to relinquish their performance times! In fact, why don't they just tour only the 7 "good" corps and to H*** with the rest of the "bad" corps!

Wow..... He was quoting some idiot in the stands. Those were not his words. You really should read before spouting off in such an ignorant manner.

[SFZFAN]

Can I get a refund for this thread? Wow where did this topic go?

[Stu]

Wow..... He was quoting some idiot in the stands. Those were not his words. You really should read before spouting off in such an ignorant manner.

I did read the whole thing, in context, and Cowtown was "in agreement" with the idiot in the stands; you can spin it all you want, but no way around that! NOW BACK TO HOW TO HANDLE RAIN OUTS!

[moBetter]

As far as bumping "good" (whatever) corps ahead in the lineup, you obviously do not understand how drum corps operate. The corps staff schedules the show days for the members several days in advance. While Colts\Spirit\Xmen were on the field Saturday, Crown\Blue Devils\Cadets were still practicing. Everything is scheduled down to the minute around their gate report time. No way to reschedule the performances on the fly.

[skevinp]

Wouldn't a possible solution be to always provide refunds and simply price it into the cost of tickets?

Before you protest that it will make the tickets too expensive, remember drum corps fans are paying for the non-shows either way. This would simply spread the cost rather than concentrating the misfortunate on the randomly unfortunate.

Also, I think more people would buy tickets if they were insulated from the risk, which brings in more money overall.

[jwscv87]

If you would like to know if the organization sponsor is a 501c3, simply ask them...if they are passing themselves off as such and aren't, THEY are going to get themselves in a world of trouble with the IRS. Secondly, you don't technically need a receipt unless the donation is more than $250; but you do need something to show the donation was made (if you paid by CHECK, a copy of the cancelled check made out to the organization would suffice; if you paid by credit card, a copy of the monthly statement would qualify). Third, if you purchased a ticket and received nothing of value in exchange for it, it's a DONATION. Purchasing a ticket and deciding not to use it is comparing apples to oranges, you could have gone to the show but chose not to...the show was still performed. All of this, of course, would come down to two issues...does the IRS audit the return, and if so does the IRS agree with the taxpayer's interpretation of the law? The worse case scenario is that the IRS would disallow the deduction, the amount would be added to your taxable income and you would have to pay the tax and interest. We're not talking about somebody that bought out the stadium to re-sell the tickets, we're talking about Joe Fan who probably shelled out $150 or so for some tickets for him and his family.

Wow - you should should stop giving tax advice on a drum corps forum. If you truly are a tax professional as you self describe yourself then you should know better. The purchase of a ticket to a drum corps contest does NOT constitute a tax deductible contribution simply because the show did not take place. Exactly who you purchase the ticket from (i.e. the show sponsor) matters. There are many things beyond what you disclose are in play. ....but if you think the strategy of "maybe the IRS will agree with you interpretation" is a good thing to advise to masses then knock yourself out.

...and IMHO this is splitting hairs. Those who think they should get a refund are not going to be satisfied with a deduction and those who don't think they should get a refund don't care.

Edited July 19, 2010 by jwscv87

[mobrien]

Whoa, kids. As both the person who mentioned my mental adjustment re: Naperville ('ah, well, consider it a donation to the corps') and as a long-timer non-profit org executive, I should make clear that what I meant wasn't to be taken in a literal sense. Though I DO make cash contributions to drum corps which are deductible, I wouldn't take it on myself to go ahead and reconfigure a financial transaction that was really a purchase (aka : tickets) into a contribution unless I had some way of justifying said reconfiguration. When I said "donation", I was referring to a rationalization that allowed me to move on from the rainout without being too disappointed (and the money DID go to the Cavaliers and, indirectly, to every other corps that night via appearance fees).

Unless you have something in writing from a drum corps, symphony, theatre, etc, that specifically clarifies that your ticket purchase has been changed to a contribution, DON'T assume that you can go ahead and take the deduction. Usually when that happens, it's because a patron has purchased a ticket that they can't use, and has given permission to the org to keep their money AND re-sell the ticket (even if the ticket isn't sold, the fact that they made it available with no expectation of a refund allows the org to change the nature of the transaction).

If you get audited, and the IRS sends an unfriendly auditor to your office, the auditor could look at a self-changed 'donation' due to rainout and not only require proof that the event didn't happen in full; they could also decide that it didn't matter if everyone performed, since you just bought a ticket to the show, and the show started. In other words, you paid for the general experience, not the individual corps performances, and even if you only saw 3 of the 7 corps, the event happened, and you took your seat.

As with anything having to do with the IRS, make sure your i's and t's are dotted and crossed before assuming that something is ok, especially if that something may cost the Fed...em....about $9 or $10 in taxes, which is probably about what my $100 is worth to them. They'll point a gun at your dog for $9...

Edited July 19, 2010 by mobrien

[Tone Quality Matters]

Bottom line:

Todays modern drum corps show is fast paced, intricate and many times dangerous enough without wet turf added to the mix. I don't think that DCI promoters or corps directors have to apologize for calling a show. Except for novice fans, we all understand the risk when we buy a ticket to a outdoor drum corps event. It is our "veterans" responsibility to help new fans of the activity to understand these and many other things about the activity.