Why don't Finals comebacks happen?

[soccerguy315]

But in all honesty, with the level of the top 3 corps, Blue Devils, Cadets and Cavaliers, it is sometimes surprising that there isn't more flipping during finals week.

since design drives the score (IMO), it makes sense there is little movement... because the shows aren't changing. You can't really "out execute" another corps. If the Blue Devils designed a 3rd place show, they can't execute it at a higher level to move up.

[The Brass Guy]

Aug 15, 1996

1 Blue Devils 98.300

2 Cadets 97.200

3 Cavaliers 95.500

4 Phantom 94.600 ***

5 Madison 94.500

6 Vanguard 93.600

Aug 16, 1996

1 Blue Devils 96.900

2 Cadets 96.600

3 Phantom 95.500 ***

4 Cavaliers 95.000

5 Vanguard 94.000

6 Madison 93.100

Aug 17, 1996

1 Phantom 97.400 ***

1 Blue Devils 97.400

3 Cadets 96.900

4 Cavaliers 93.800

5 Vanguard 92.300

6 Madison 91.500

Interesting to say the least.

[SCV Biker]

Interesting to note that in 1993 Star beat the Cadets by 0.4 points at Quarterfinals and subsequently lost to the Cadets by 0.3 points in the Semis and by 0.1 in Finals (and should not have IMO, but that's already been beaten to death and then some.)

[MisterA]

This anomoly bears out the necessary ingredient that is critical to the last night comeback: Drama....and by drama I don't mean fans going crazy for their favorite. What PR did was pure genius, adding the final touchs to an already fairly cool story. Yes, the crowd wanted a new winner, but in terms of scoring and GE, they needed a nail for the coffin and what they added was perfect.

At the risk of angering some here (what's new), I'm suggesting...it's nearly impossible to have one of these anomolies/comebacks with just a music/drill show (no matter how great). For this reason, I continue to say that the best positioned corps for such a comeback are the Cadets. But it would have to be off the charts and I'm not sure the toy soulder theme is hard edged enough although there is substance with their show that has the liking to PR 08, albeit less serious. Some could argue that Cavies have something of a drama piece, but nothing like PR 08.

I suppose the new ending for Phantom would have been alot cooler if we hadn't seen it done by a high school band 2 years prior. Although I thought the band did it a little better with the deaths during their show, as it allowed a costume change by each "corpse" in the colorgaurd if you will. But I didn't think the GE or Colorguard in particular were anywhere near the level of Blue Devils or Cavaliers. The only caption I would have had Phantom even in top 3 was percussion. Granted the crowd ate it up, however, I think about 20% of the crowd that night were Phantom alumni. I always felt politics were more the winner that night than Phantom.

[Plan9]

I suppose the new ending for Phantom would have been alot cooler if we hadn't seen it done by a high school band 2 years prior. Although I thought the band did it a little better with the deaths during their show, as it allowed a costume change by each "corpse" in the colorgaurd if you will. But I didn't think the GE or Colorguard in particular were anywhere near the level of Blue Devils or Cavaliers. The only caption I would have had Phantom even in top 3 was percussion. Granted the crowd ate it up, however, I think about 20% of the crowd that night were Phantom alumni. I always felt politics were more the winner that night than Phantom.

PR were excellent and deserved the title. But, as you might guess you won't get a lot of argument from me on the performce comments. It was even more obvious during the reading of the caption winners... when BD took the majority of them (GE, Guard, Ott) there was modest applause.... then percussion for PR was read and it went off the charts. All this again speaks to the necessary ingredient - drama (that is, drama in the show, not in the stands)....gotta have it or a comeback ain't happening.

[MisterA]

since design drives the score (IMO), it makes sense there is little movement... because the shows aren't changing. You can't really "out execute" another corps. If the Blue Devils designed a 3rd place show, they can't execute it at a higher level to move up.

I would disagree a little on this. Alot of years, the top 3 shows have been designed very well. So in theory, a better performance by one corps over another in any caption could be able to change the outcome, or a bad performance by a corps should in theory be able to drop them. However, it tends not to be this way. except when the judges are actually wanting it to be that way. This is my opinion after being around DCI for 35 years now.

[Fran Haring]

I would definitely count the three ties (96, 99, 00) as "comebacks" or "upsets."

I agree.

[corpsband]

since design drives the score (IMO), it makes sense there is little movement... because the shows aren't changing. You can't really "out execute" another corps. If the Blue Devils designed a 3rd place show, they can't execute it at a higher level to move up.

Design certainly drives the potential score. Execution realizes the potential. A corps can fall short on the design side (for example have a show that has the 2nd highest potential) but still win if the corps with highest potential design fails to execute it well enough.

Additionally a high level of execution seems to get credit as an effect in and of itself. This can "drive" a show past its potential into higher scores.

[contraman007]

80 (cough)...8....(cough)....80...(cough)...8...(cough)...

With all the love and respect for Madison ( I hope my kid gets his wish and marches with them) Didn't Madison get the 11th slot in finals by way of a blind draw, with the 12th slot went to the defending champion (Cadets)?

If that is the case, 88 should not count in this argument.

[WestCoaster]

Sure, the Friday-Saturday thing has been pretty much a lock, but if you look at DURING finals week, as well as going INTO finals week, there have been TONS of upsets over the years.

87 Vanguard went into finals undefeated only to fall to Garfield.

88 BD went in undefeated and ended up 3rd.

92 Star won Thursday and ended up 3rd (2nd on Friday).

93 Star won Thursday and ended up 2nd Friday and Saturday.

95 BD went in undefeated and fell to Cavies.

96 Phantom rose from FOURTH to tied for first.

97 Vanguard won Thursday (tie) and fell to third on Friday and Saturday.

98 Cadets rose from third place on Thursday to win.

99 Vanguard rose from second place Thursday and Friday to win.

00 Cavies same deal.

01 Devs went in as heavy favorites and fell to Cavies.

04 Devs went in as heavy favorites and fell to Cavies.

and of course 08

Tons of upsets, plenty of drama.