Indianapolis Attendance

[blue4ever]

Stu

Don't disagree with your observation that this is one possible driver for lower attendance, but on the flip side - why call these competitions if the outcome is - for the most part - already decided ? Perhaps indeed the behind the scenes DCI objective is to move the activity - or at least the infamous G7 or whatever - to a purely 'show' model similar to Blast and do away with competition eventually ? Competition and the ability for say a corp sitting in 5th for a period of time to take it all is something some ( or many ) might prefer. Maybe the drop in attendance at a number of shows is that fans generally prefer 'competition' and will go to see a show fewer times given the outcomes are pretty well decided towards the end of a season - with a few exceptions of course. DCI hates to hear the term - slotting - but its so obvious. Once a show gets its blessing from the judges and given an ordinal value and as execution improves/hits its ability level - game over.

Some prefer no surprises - but for me - upsets or surprises add to the enjoyment. The dinosaur 'tic' system had its issues in consistency of judging etc, . but at least it had that air of 'on any given night a corp could pull off a higher placing or a win even if they had been mired in 3rd or whatever during a season.

Well, if we can just convince BD to cut back on their achievement, we can have more exciting, close races at the wire. Blue Coats dropped to 3rd - did that excite you? My lasting memory coming back from Indy is the enormous talent of all the corps and how they laid it all out on the field at Finals - I'll keep going to Indy forever, the thrill of a lifetime.

Attendance? ALL sports are down (NASCAR, MLB, etc down 5% and more) with this rotten economy. Indy was in the same ballpark as last year, about 22,000 counting freebies. Bring DCI back to California and you'll see another monster crowd like Rose Bowl 2007.

[crfrey71]

Here is a different take on why there might be so few people attending DCI Finals in recent years:

If you live in TX, LA, or NM and can see 'all' of the WC corps in San Antonio, why pay the extra expense to go to Indy Finals?

If you live in AL, GA, TN, SC, NC, or FL and you can see 'all' of the WC corps in Atlanta, why pay the extra expense to go to Indy Finals?

If you live in the northeast and can see 'all' of the WC corps in Allentown, why pay the extra expense to go to Indy Finals?

If you live in the northern middle States, and can see 'all' of the WC corps in Minneapolis, why pay the extra expense to go to Indy Finals?

...and if you live in California?

[troubadorgg]

Well, if we can just convince BD to cut back on their achievement, we can have more exciting, close races at the wire. Blue Coats dropped to 3rd - did that excite you? My lasting memory coming back from Indy is the enormous talent of all the corps and how they laid it all out on the field at Finals - I'll keep going to Indy forever, the thrill of a lifetime.

Attendance? ALL sports are down (NASCAR, MLB, etc down 5% and more) with this rotten economy. Indy was in the same ballpark as last year, about 22,000 counting freebies. Bring DCI back to California and you'll see another monster crowd like Rose Bowl 2007.

Rose Bowl - Great weather - hum of the lights was a bummer!

[garfield]

Everyone that I have ever spoken with that has "marched" in the DCI top twelve has the competition aspect near the top of the list as to why they engaged in the activity. Maybe not the "win or else mentality", but the idea that we as a corps can start the season in ninth and finish the season in fourth, or start the season in fourth and maybe win the gold was, and is, a motivator to do one's best at all times. This aspect, and judging system, is very close to the reasons behind the excellence in the world of Olympic Figure Skating. And it is the competition that brings the same ticket buyers back year after year. The problem comes in when there is a big disconnect in between the judging community and the audience, or when the perceived pre determined slotting that you refer to comes into the picture.

Blast, Blue Man, and Stomp, on the other hand, work on the level of showmanship because of the uniqueness of their performance ideas in the world of Broadway type entertainment. One group, two hours of entertainment, and a unique show design from each unit. Most people that I know in the industry agree that if there were twenty or more of these type groups performing back to back in a Broadway setting, the show would fold in it's first week of running. Also, very few people purchase tickets year after year after year to see these groups over and over and over.

Here is the deal (imo): Since there is a direct parallel in the judging system between Olympic Figure Skating and DCI, there would also be a parallel in the non competitive world of entertainment. In ice skating, an Olympic Gold Medal winner captures the attention of the whole world; for a brief moment in time that person is deemed the best of the best. Then what happens? That person either become and instructor or advocate for a new youth to reach those same Olympic heights, or they put on a purple costume and perform with "Barney on Ice". So, let DCI be the Olympic aspect, and the G7, or some configuration thereof, become the "Sponge Bob's on Ice". Then, let us see who is drawing in the repeat ticket buyers ten years from now, and see who the best musical youth in the world are auditiong for.

This has some of the most logical and well-thought out rationalizations of the activity that I've seen. The parallel to figure skating is striking (Boo, you've got long experience in skating. Can you validate any of Stu's thoughts?)

I'm curious, Stu, about your further thoughts on the judging/audience connection (or lack there-of) What, specifically, does skating judging do differently to connect with the audience that DC does not?

Edited August 29, 2010 by garfield

[coloradocorp]

Everyone that I have ever spoken with that has "marched" in the DCI top twelve has the competition aspect near the top of the list as to why they engaged in the activity. Maybe not the "win or else mentality", but the idea that we as a corps can start the season in ninth and finish the season in fourth, or start the season in fourth and maybe win the gold was, and is, a motivator to do one's best at all times. This aspect, and judging system, is very close to the reasons behind the excellence in the world of Olympic Figure Skating. And it is the competition that brings the same ticket buyers back year after year. The problem comes in when there is a big disconnect in between the judging community and the audience, or when the perceived pre determined slotting that you refer to comes into the picture.

Blast, Blue Man, and Stomp, on the other hand, work on the level of showmanship because of the uniqueness of their performance ideas in the world of Broadway type entertainment. One group, two hours of entertainment, and a unique show design from each unit. Most people that I know in the industry agree that if there were twenty or more of these type groups performing back to back in a Broadway setting, the show would fold in it's first week of running. Also, very few people purchase tickets year after year after year to see these groups over and over and over.

Here is the deal (imo): Since there is a direct parallel in the judging system between Olympic Figure Skating and DCI, there would also be a parallel in the non competitive world of entertainment. In ice skating, an Olympic Gold Medal winner captures the attention of the whole world; for a brief moment in time that person is deemed the best of the best. Then what happens? That person either become and instructor or advocate for a new youth to reach those same Olympic heights, or they put on a purple costume and perform with "Barney on Ice". So, let DCI be the Olympic aspect, and the G7, or some configuration thereof, become the "Sponge Bob's on Ice". Then, let us see who is drawing in the repeat ticket buyers ten years from now, and see who the best musical youth in the world are auditiong for.

Well stated and I agree totally that your analogy of Ice Skating Judging panels vis a vis DCI judging is point on.

[byline]

DCI needs to have seat selectors on the ticketmaster website :)

Seriously, I agree. Every time I've ordered tickets through them, they find me their "best" seats, and I find myself in row 20. Fine for a football game, not so great for a drum corps show.

[Grumpy]

<and i ordered the day they went on sale and ended up on the 30.>

This is an AWFUL business practice...filling the less desirable seats FIRST - dumb. I've stopped using on-line drum corps ticketing from DCI after the same thing happened to me at 2004 nationals. I trusted that my December purchase (at top price...) would put me pretty close...(end up on 30 yard line, and VERY low...) -

I sold them at the venue, buying much better seats from scalpers and saved the week - but DCI seems not to have learned that their best customers would buy MORE if they had a way for them to actually select the seats they want. It's not hard - I know of small metropolitan orchestras that feature just such software on their websites...

With all of DCI's techno savvy, it's just beyond imagining why they've yet to join the 21st century in this area.

DCI doesn't handle the ticketing-Ticketmaster does. In nearly every major stadium in the country, and certainly any NFL stadium, Ticketmaster has a contract with the venue to handle ALL ticket sales for ALL events. By calling the stadium box office, they can certainly look and see what seats are available, but you will STILL be going through Ticketmaster. One reason the "less desirable" seats fill first is the way tickets are allocated. For example, you have Friends of DCI and corps that receive blocks of tickets, in the best seats in the house. In much the same way, to compare this with concert tickets (which Ticketmaster handles regularly), fan clubs, the performers themselves and major sponsors receive blocks of tickets in the prime seats. As the performance date approaches, seats in these blocks will not be sold or used by those they were allocated to-and they are released to the general public (the poster that got great seats two weeks before the show). The problem is, those seats don't always become available-those that received their allocation distributed everything they were given; or, they become available but by the time you get into the site, they're gone. Then you're left in the unfortunate situation of taking whatever is left by that time, the absolute worst of the worst; dealing with a scalper to get ANYTHING at all in the venue, or hoping that by some miracle you can at least get inside the building and then you can roam around and grab unused seats only to get chased away after one or two corps. I had been hoping last year to get concert tickets at a casino for a performer we really wanted to see, but the seats on Ticketmaster that kept coming up weren't what I wanted. About 2 months prior to the concert, I was at the casino and decided to stop by the box office; they were coming up with the same selection as I was, but the girl working there said to check back within the last week before the concert-because large blocks of tickets were made available to tribal leaders and high rollers, and if they weren't being used they were generally released to the public a few days or in some cases even the day of the concert.

[84skyrydr]

You gotta love ticketscammer. Maybe attendance would go up if they were gone and people could hand pick their seat and not pay a convience charge for the convience of dealing with a computer picking your seat. I am sorry, I forgot, all technology is good technology and everybody benefits from it, right Mike....

[Michael Boo]

This has some of the most logical and well-thought out rationalizations of the activity that I've seen. The parallel to figure skating is striking (Boo, you've got long experience in skating. Can you validate any of Stu's thoughts?)

Historically, figure skaters who ascended to the top of their game turned pro, but more recently, pros were allowed to come back and compete in the Winter Olympics, (something that was unofficially referred to as the Boitano Rule, as Brian was the one who really pushed for it). The logic was the Olympic events in which professionals already could compete, such as tennis.

In an article I wrote for the former American Skating World in 1992, I wrote, "Speaking of which—How much pressure does it add to the psyche when winning can mean becoming a millionaire while most other skaters have little more to look forward to than dressing up as Daffy Duck?"

I'm still thinking about the parallels.

[Todd Tanji]

...and if you live in California?

Precisely.