You know drum corps is dying when.............

[garfield]

Are you sure you want to ask me that question? :)

To be honest, there is so much that has yet to be explored in the medium... a whole world of fascinating possibilities.

For example, uniforms don't really make a hell of a lot of sense to me, just the same as fixed instrumentation (particularly in the battery) and things like rifle or sabres.

By dismissing the conventions of actual uniforms for musicians and costumes for guard, and just going with costumes for all... this not only more properly integrates the guard and musicians into a more cohesive and fluid ensemble, there is a much wider range of possibilities.

This is the next great leap forward for the corps bold enough to do it. Blue Devils could pull this off right now, in fact, I think they actually need to do something like this... and Scott and Jay are exactly the right ones to be able to break through on this effectively the first try out of the gate.

There is also a lot of wasted talent and opportunity in most top-level corps in the sense that there are loads of guard members that also play instruments, loads of musicians that are also doing winterguard, loads of musicians that play a variety of instruments.

How cool would a show with performers moving fluidly between different combinations of instruments and equipment as the show might call for it?

It also makes zero sense to have fixed instrumentation in the battery for the duration of the entire program. Sure, you might lose a bit of the cleanliness you'd have with guys playing on the same surface all season long, but you'd more than make up for it in performance value and breaking up the homogeny.

The surface has only barely been scratched on the interrelationship between individual movement, form movement, staging, and equipment (think picking things up where Alwin Nikolais left off).

Along these lines, there has only been modest exploration of the possible decoupling of the movement of the performer and independent movement of the instrument (BD explored this a bit awhile back with the tenor line).

About the actual instruments played... who really cares as long as it is effective in the context of the performance venue? I've performed concerts on things like a typewriter, a six-pack of budweiser, a clawfoot bathtub, a pack of raw spaghetti, etc. among a wide range of explorations. While fun, challenging and interesting, they'd probably not be so effective in a large stadium.

Similarly, I doubt the effectiveness of entire sections of woodwinds in a stadium. It seems like a waste. Though, I don't rule out the possibility that a sax solo or flute or something in the right context of the right program could actually be effective. If it works, it works.... if it doesn't... then don't do that. No need to be religious about it either way.

Amplification of the pit, I definitely get. These are expensive and delicate instruments that do add a lot of color, but can get damaged easily by playing on too hard of mallets and performers can mess themselves up by over playing.

Regarding electronics... I find it odd that it is a sort of defacto standard now. It seems a bit like dumping pepper on every dish on the menu.

If it is something that could really enhance the flavour of that particular program, why the hell not? If it's solid without it... why the hell are you doing it?

Thinking about lines I wouldn't cross... hmm... I'd say probably anything that could be potentially unsafe or that would come at the financial cost of anything else necessary to provide a safe and quality experience for the performers. Other than that... if it is brilliantly effective... why not?

A lot of your post made me chuckle at the outlandish thoughts, but the sentence in bold is just crap. "Delicate" instruments? Are you kidding me? And that's why they're shlepped around the country in semis, pushed through mud and gravel, and crammed on a trailer with other "tougher" percussion equipment all summer, right? And I don't buy the crap about kids having to play hard to be heard, and potentially hurting the players in the process. I watched pits all summer hammering away on these "delicate" instruments like they were driving a 16-penny nail, then wail away during a drum solo as if the keys were covered in felt. Even with amps and none of the hornlines playing I saw mallet-head heights that were FEET above the keys, and this was among the "elite" as well as the non-"elite" corps.

This whole argument is just thin justification for amplification, because the pit staffs have not lowered the "delicate" wrist heights while playing on these "delicate" instruments at all. Not in the least. If the arranger's programming calls for pianissimo playing when the corps is blasting at fff the corps needs a new pit arranger, not bigger amps.

Edited August 26, 2010 by garfield

[garfield]

Because DCA is like lunatics running an asylum?

If that means you don't like adults in drum corps, the average age of a typical all-age corps

is only a few years higher than a top DCI corps.

No, now you don't get it. We don't go to DCA because we're scared to death of leaving DCI to the inmate "youts". We understand their enthusiasm isn't filtered by the reality of experience.

An example, for instance, is that I have to explain this to you.

[N.E. Brigand]

I am grateful to have been exposed to a lot of new music through drum corps. That being said, there needs to be some sort of balance. This summer, I took two people to a show who had never seen drum corps before. They were completely bored. They did not recognize one thing that any of the 11 corps at the show played. And it's not that they're musically illiterate either, because I was only familiar with a few myself. And then to end with BD, whose show had no melody and came across as just a bunch of noise (sorry to beat that dead horse to a pulp, but that was our perception). ... remember -- you have to do something to connect with the audience. There wasn't much audience connecting going on this year in my opinion.

Eleven corps, including Devils and Crown, excluding 'coats, Stars, and Scouts, and you live in MS... so I'm guessing you're talking about Hattiesburg. The programs for that show are below, gathered using MikeN's helpful list of the season's repertoires. I've bolded the music that I recognized when I heard these corps play:

Blue Devils

-Suite from City of Glass / Bob Graettinger

-Conflict / Pete Rugolo

-Mirage / Pete Rugolo

-Trajectories / Franklyn Marks

-Incident In Jazz / Bob Graettinger

-Laura / David Raksin

-La Suerte De Los Tontos / Johnny Richards

Carolina Crown

-Symphony #2, Mvt. 1 / Gustav Mahler

-Symphony #2 / Aram Khachaturian

-Danzon No.2 / Arturo Marquez

-Nimrod (from Enigma Variations) / Edward Elgar

-Symphony #2 / Gustav Mahler

The Cadets

-Procession of the Nobles (from Mlada) / Nicholai Rimsky-Korsakov

-Overture (from The School for Scandal) / Samuel Barber

-Prelude to Act II & Maypole Dances (from Merry Mount) / Howard Hansen

-Children Dances (from Merry Mount) / Howard Hansen

-Dance of the Tumblers / Nicholi Rimsky-Korsakov

-March of the Toys (from Babes in Toyland) / Victor Herbert

Phantom Regiment

-The New Moon in the Old Moon's Arms / Michael Kamen

Glassmen

-Mercy (from The Prayer Cycle) / Jonathan Elias

-Primacy of Number (from Naqoyqatsi) / Phillip Glass

-Hope (from The Prayer Cycle) / Jonathan Elias

-Epiphanies (from Fanfare & Chorales) / Ron Nelson

-We’re All Jungle Creatures (from The Lion In Winter) / John Barry

-Terminal / James Dooley

Colts

-Green (from Color Music) / Michael Torke

-Alone in the Crowd (from Pollock) / Jeff Beal

-True Colors / Billy Steinberg, Tom Kelly

-Appalachian Morning / Paul Halley

Troopers

-Wanted Dead or Alive / Bon Jovi

-Trittico / Vaclav Nelhybel

-Proven Lands (from There Will Be Blood) / Johnny Greenwood

-Our Town Suite / Aaron Copland

-Borinage / Michael Gordon

-Journey to the Center of the Earth / Peter Graham

-Night Flight (from Swing Shift) / Kenji Bunch

The Academy

-Prince Igor Overture / Alexander Borodin

-Aquarium (from Carnival of the Animals) / Camile Saint-Saens

-Prince Igor / Alexander Borodin

-Polovtsian Suite / Alexander Borodin

Pacific Crest

-Machu Picchu / Satoshi Yagisawa

-Asphalt Cocktail / John Mackey

-Sam's Gone (from I Am Legend) / James Newton Howard

-Turbine / John Mackey

Teal Sound

-Octavarium / Dream Theater

-In the Presence of Enemies, Part 1 / Dream Theater

-Feed the Wheel / Jordan Rudess

-Goodnight Kiss / Dream Theater

-The Running Free / Coheed & Cambria

Mandarins

-Meetings Along the Edge / Ravi Shankar, Philip Glass

-The Mountain of Fruit and Flowers / David Buckley

-Samudra Manthan / Shivkumar Sharma

-Quiet / Sheila Chandra

-Ever So Lonely / Monsoon

-Ambush from Ten Sides / Yo-Yo Ma

Well, I agree that's a pretty low percentage (and I'm might not have recognized the Bon Jovi had I not known it was part of the Troopers' program), and that a different line-up might increase the number of tunes I was familiar with before I heard these corps play them (just from the eventual top twelves, I would add "Mad World", "Smile", "Concerto for Orchestra", "Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini", "Rhapsody in Blue", "Slaughter on 10th Avenue", "Farandole" and "Nimrod" again). That said, almost everything Crown and Cadets played was music I probably should have known, and as arranged it was melodic and engaging. And Phantom's music, with which I was unfamiliar, was gorgeous and haunting.

[Todd Tanji]

No, now you don't get it. We don't go to DCA because we're scared to death of leaving DCI to the inmate "youts". We understand their enthusiasm isn't filtered by the reality of experience.

An example, for instance, is that I have to explain this to you.

The single most arrogant post I've ever seen on DCP.

[garfield]

The single most arrogant post I've ever seen on DCP.

Give it time, my friend, give it time.

[JamMan]

This whole argument is just thin justification for amplification, because the pit staffs have not lowered the "delicate" wrist heights while playing on these "delicate" instruments at all. Not in the least. If the arranger's programming calls for pianissimo playing when the corps is blasting at fff the corps needs a new pit arranger, not bigger amps.

Actually, pit arrangers HAVE lowered the heights. I'm guessing you're not a pit person, or you would have noticed a vast majority (minus Crown) play with a better touch on the instrument.

The whole point of not pounding is to not break bars/sticks/wrists. Pounding also distorts the sound coming form the keys and produces many unpleasant sounds (from the mallets and keys). To think otherwise is, I believe, pure ignorance.

[Brassop]

Exactly! I am young (marched this year, 4 years till my ageout), but I love many shows from the "old days" (admittedly via FN): BD 76, Guardsmen 79, Bridgemen 80, 27th 80, Suncoast 85, etc...

That being said, I also love shows that push the activity in new directions: BD 2010, Cavies early 2000's, etc...

I don't see what the problem is other than human stubborness. Plenty of members/fans enjoy both new and old.

Guardsmen's '79 concert, "Tiger of Sand Pedro" has got to be one of the most incredible drum corps numbers of all time. It's very cool that you've discovered the classics!

[Jeff Ream]

This is a back and forth arguement because;

Alot of people love the activity as it is now and alot of people dislike the activity as it is now.

The problem is getting more people to like it then those disliking it. It cost 10x more to get new customer then keep an existing one.

The activity is changing as it always has, once again some people like some people dislike it.

The changes has not effected todays corps because thats what todays kids are used to. DCI does not promote the past like baseball or the minor leagues (Open Class) which in the long run will hurt the activity. I think the problem with changes were so radical. Adding valves or grounding equipment keep the basic structure of the activity. Adding electronics and vocalization went away from the "nature"of the activity.

The activity is dying.

Its called Entropy. We can't say the activity is better off with less corps. 30 years ago there were 44 corps in "world class" prelims many missing. Somoe of theselong lost corps, Seattle Imperials, Memphis Blues, Defenders, Rivermen, Avant Garde and Royal Crusaders. Not top 12 but very entertaining. Not even going to talk about the class 2 and 3 and all girls corps that used to have separate prelims and finals. The best show I ever went to was Class 2 prelims and finals at DCEast in Allentown. Watching corps that I never seen before blow me away. The lower tier corps were just as entertaining as the "larger" corps. Less is not more unless your a light beer.

The activity cost to much to start a corps

In business the best way to stay successfull is to create a barrier to entry. This is whats happening. The larger corps are making harder for smaller corps to be success or even new corps to start. By adding needed equipment it makes it that much more expensive to get to the field. And please don't say "you don't need electronics to start" sure, but you will need them to be successful. The touring model is killing corps and you need to tour because there are so few corps you have to follow others. Sure there could be an eastern tour with Cadets, Surf, Raiders, Spartans, etc. You could also do a midwest and western tour. Send 1 or 2 corps into a different area each year. But would DCI do this, NO. There are one hundreds reasons against but one important one for it, MONEY.

Increasing revunue

There are several ways to increase revenue in business, Reduce the workforce or increase sales. Can't do the former so we need to do the latter. First reduce the cost of show sponsorship. I read somewhere it cost $7500 to sponsor a show. Try $10,000 in advance. Say you have a staduim that holds 5000 people. You have a regional touring model with 7-8 corps. You charge $15 so a sellout will bring oyu $75,000. You pay DCI $5,000 in advance with $5 of each ticket going to the corp for $25,000 or $3.125 if split evenly. As a sponsor I'm looking at $45,000 plus other monies. As a business person I might be willing to risk $5.000 instead of 10, even though it might cost more in the end. I can cover that 5k nut with bourchure sales and other sponsorships. So now instead of 10-15 eastern shows we have 20-25.

Put DCI to work

DCI desperately needs to mend some fences in the high school and college music community. Housing is becoming a problem. There should be regional people out talking to directors about concerns and questions they have. Recruiting show sponsors. Look at this years schedule and see how many shows were sponsored by corps.

They need to start promoting the lower tier corps. This is the future of drum corps.

The Corps are better then they ever been

The same thing has been said for pretty much every. I know 2010 Blue Devils are better then 1980 Blue Devils. Guess what, Pioneer 2010 was better then 1980 Pioneer.

while there are past housing abuses, it's no longer just drum corps having issues accessing schools. it's this thing called liability and shrinking school budgets to pay for people to be there when corps are at the schools. More and more schools shut down...totally...during the summer, not even turning on air conditioning or water

[Jeff Ream]

No, I understood. The reason more of us don't go to DCA is because...(see my answer above).

yet...DCA is growing...

[garfield]

Actually, pit arrangers HAVE lowered the heights. I'm guessing you're not a pit person, or you would have noticed a vast majority (minus Crown) play with a better touch on the instrument.

The whole point of not pounding is to not break bars/sticks/wrists. Pounding also distorts the sound coming form the keys and produces many unpleasant sounds (from the mallets and keys). To think otherwise is, I believe, pure ignorance.

Ha! OK, you got me. Been a percussionist (amateur) for 40 years but I've never noticed lower wrist heights. Guess I've just been watching the guard that whole time.

I'll ignorantly concede to your superiority (while I chuckle at your avatar's "Bang Drums" wording).

Edited August 26, 2010 by garfield