Has Drum Corps Lost Its Soul

[Jeff Ream]

there is little evidence to show that there is a significant dropoff in attendance due to "the changes."

More to the point, the economy...look at the growth in regional show attendance...and attrition due to older drum corps fans who are no longer with us would account for more attendance drop than "changes."

actually if you listen to what the directors are saying, attendance is down. DCI hasn't realsed a number since 2007. now in another thread you call that smart PR.

[N.E. Brigand]

My first year in HS marching band was 1964 and in drum corps, 1965. Back then, apart from instrumentation, the overall differences --in general-- between marching bands & corps were distinct.... I note that the former distinct differences --again, in general-- between marching bands & corps [including, certainly, their instrumentation] have become almost nonexistent. Corps & bands have become and/or are becoming 'McMarching' groups, separate and distinct only by whether they're academic or non-academic in sponsorship, if they use woodwinds or not, and by how "polished" and complex/simple are their shows.

Could you talk more about how they were different then as opposed to now? And which changed more: corps or bands?

[MikeD]

there were articles on dci.org where some of them said it would drag in the band kids....even here George says it:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.ma...DCI+passes+amps

George said this in the link....bold is mine....

I would like to think that over time, those with the power to bring

DCI and the participating corps to greater heights, will consider that

the inclusion of instruments, electronics, and the amplification of

such is but a step in our evolution.

I do not see anyplace where he said anything remotely like what you are asserting. He said that his proposal moved DCI in the direction he thought best for the long term survival, not that merely permitting electronics and amps would draw in band kids...that the shows being created and the performances of the members...would remain at the front of marching music with these and other additions, and would led to the greater relevance to those DCI is targeting as audience and future members.

[MikeD]

do you get cause and effect?

he pushed for this stuff to go thru.....and now they say crowds are down and it's getting tougher to stay in the black.

Yes, I do get cause and effect; do you? You can't just point at 'A' and say that because 'B' happened after 'A' it means that 'A' caused 'B'. It's like saying "I bought a new couch yesterday" ('A') and then "My house burned down" ('B') and concluding that just because I bought a new couch it caused my house to burn down.

[MikeD]

actually if you listen to what the directors are saying, attendance is down. DCI hasn't realsed a number since 2007. now in another thread you call that smart PR.

But Tom said this which you ignored...

...little evidence to show that there is a significant dropoff in attendance due to "the changes."

You are making unproven connections.

[Michael Boo]

It really does not matter "how" it got discovered, the kid knew the consequences of hurting the entire band yet he went ahead and selfishly tried to get away with it; and by the way, I agree with the rule. It teaches our youth that individual actions have global consequences!!!

It may not matter, but still, do you know how it was discovered? And bravo to those who enforced the rule.

[Michael Boo]

...

See the history of Bridgemen or SCV concerning the breaking of DCI eligibility rules. SCV got away with it, Bridgemen did not.

Uh, SCV didn't get away with anything. They didn't know until the last few days there was even an issue with the two members from England who had falsified their legal documents. The only way for corps to guarantee that no one falsifies such documents from other countries is to not allow any foreigners into the corps, and that would be an extremist response that would be unfair to all.

Gail Royer responded immediately upon finding out what happened and the corps marched the World Championship Finals with two holes. I don't know what else he and the corps could have done.

[Stu]

Uh, SCV didn't get away with anything. They didn't know until the last few days there was even an issue with the two members from England who had falsified their legal documents. The only way for corps to guarantee that no one falsifies such documents from other countries is to not allow any foreigners into the corps, and that would be an extremist response that would be unfair to all.

Gail Royer responded immediately upon finding out what happened and the corps marched the World Championship Finals with two holes. I don't know what else he and the corps could have done.

What I meant by SCV "getting away with it" was the fact that they were not disqualified from competition while the Bridgemen were disqualified. A governing body cannot just get together and say, "We all agree that Gail was unaware, and we know that there is no provision in the rules to override disqualification, but we all agree to override that rule anyway." That totally obliterates the foundation of the law of fairness to honor the agreed rule of play. Just ask the President of SMU; he did not know of the activities of his football program, but the NCAA still laid down the disqualification law. And good for the NCAA. So, even though Gail was unaware of the falsified documents, unless you can show me the statute giving DCI the authority to override the rule of over age disqualification, I will still say that SCV got away with it.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Stu

[Michael Boo]

What I meant by SCV "getting away with it" was the fact that they were not disqualified from competition while the Bridgemen were disqualified. A governing body cannot just get together and say, "We all agree that Gail was unaware, and we know that there is no provision in the rules to override disqualification, but we all agree to override that rule anyway." That totally obliterates the foundation of the law of fairness to honor the agreed rule of play. Just ask the President of SMU; he did not know of the activities of his football program, but the NCAA still laid down the disqualification law. And good for the NCAA. So, even though Gail was unaware of the falsified documents, unless you can show me the statute giving DCI the authority to override the rule of over age disqualification, I will still say that SCV got away with it.

I believe a strong case is made that when a corps management looks at foreign documents that appear legitimate, there has to be room in the law to recognize that. What happened to SCV with the forged documents could have happened to any corps. A corps can do its best to be legal and still fall victim to someone forging their papers.

It's been awhile, but if memory serves correctly, the incident was brought to SCV's attention by English drum corps members who knew the two were overage. Unfortunately, this didn't come forward at a time when two legally eligible members who didn't make the cut could have marched the corps and had the time of their lives. In my personal opinion, it was all a result of personal selfishness on the part of the two ineligible members who not only put an entire corps at risk, but denied two others the opportunity to march.

[Stu]

I believe a strong case is made that when a corps management looks at foreign documents that appear legitimate, there has to be room in the law to recognize that. What happened to SCV with the forged documents could have happened to any corps. A corps can do its best to be legal and still fall victim to someone forging their papers.

It's been awhile, but if memory serves correctly, the incident was brought to SCV's attention by English drum corps members who knew the two were overage. Unfortunately, this didn't come forward at a time when two legally eligible members who didn't make the cut could have marched the corps and had the time of their lives. In my personal opinion, it was all a result of personal selfishness on the part of the two ineligible members who not only put an entire corps at risk, but denied two others the opportunity to march.

I agree with you in heart and spirit; I really do. Gail and SCV were lied to by some selfish idiots. But if there was no provision in the DCI statutes at that time to allow an override of the disqualification rule for SCV, the rule of disqualification should have been followed to maintain the integrity of DCI. For example, the President of the United States can pardon people, not because he wants to, but because the Presidential power to pardon is granted under Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution. If that Constitutional Article "did not" exist, no matter how righteous the action of a pardon may be, even if the President did so with all of congressional approval, that pardon would hurt the integrity of the United States because it would go against the rule of law. To that end, show me where the DCI directors had the written authority at that time to pardon SCV, and I will change my stance on their situation.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Stu